27. Our Favorite Books of 2024
“It’s like slipping into a warm fuzzy sweater and having a cup of tea. I find them relaxing and enjoyable and a good escape.”
The end of every calendar year sees “best of” lists for just about every cultural category imaginable. But “best” is not easily defined when it comes to art and culture — especially when used by critics. Most of the culture that Tara and Tina consume comes from reading and as a result they are continually searching for book recommendations.
Although critics’ lists are sometimes helpful, Tina and Tara have found that those books recommended by family and friends usually resonate far more than those on the critics’ lists. It is with this mindset that they chose to do their own “best of” episode as 2024 comes to a close.
For Tara and Tina, “best of” means the books they enjoyed reading the most this past year. In this episode they discuss their favorite fiction and non-fiction books of this past year. They hope some of these titles make their way into your reading future. They would also love to hear some of your favorite books of 2024!
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[00:22] Tara Bansal: Hi, this is Tara Conti Bansal, and I want to welcome you to season two of our podcast, Messy Middlescence. My sister Christina Conti Donovan and I are in the thick of midlife and trying to help ourselves and others to learn about and hopefully thrive in this unique phase of life.
[00:42] Like adolescence, middlesence is a time of tremendous change, touching almost every aspects of our lives. There are the physical and hormonal changes, but also many of the rhythms, relationships, and frameworks that have dominated our lives for decades all start to shift in various ways.
[01:02] Tina and I are figuring this out as we go, and we hope you will join us as we dive into and discuss topics and ideas that will help all of us grow and understand this special midlife phase and how to live it better, more meaningfully and joyfully, one day at a time.
[01:22] Christina Donovan: This is Christina or Ttina Conti Donovan, and I'm here with my sister Tara Conti Bansal for another episode of Messy Middle Essence.
[01:33] We're nearing the end of 2024, and it's that time of year when all the critics put out their best of lists, and it's easy to get caught up in them.
[01:49] But I think it's equally as fun to get caught up in what your friends and family loved this year in terms of books or film or tv.
[02:01] Melissa Kirsch of the Times talks about this. She talks about how she has a fantasy of pulling out a bullhorn on her morning commuter and asking everyone in the subway car, you know, what are your top five films?
[02:16] Which I think is really funny. I mean, we're not that bad. But Tarrie and I don't generally consume a lot of what I would call.
[02:24] Christina Donovan: Visual culture, like TV and movies.
[02:27] Christina Donovan: But we both read a lot, and both of us look for recommendations from each other, from our family members, from our friends on books. So we thought, as we move in towards the end of 2024, we would do an episode where we talk about our fav.
[02:42] Favorite books of the year.
[02:44] So that's what we're gonna talk about today.
[02:48] And I think there's a couple things around this. The first is both Tara and I didn't have as many books as I think we had anticipated to talk about.
[03:02] And again, another key thing here is what constitutes favorite. Was it the best book you read? Did it just touch you in some way? I mean, there's different stories.
[03:12] Tara Bansal: Yeah. Memorable.
[03:13] What's favorite? For me, everybody has their unique, different tastes, and I'm gonna. Tina is a more voracious reader than I am. I'm A slow reader. And I feel like Tina reads a lot.
[03:29] Do you know about how many books you read this year, Tina?
[03:32] Christina Donovan: No, I have not.
[03:33] Tara Bansal: Oh, you didn't? I went and looked because I. Yeah. And I just counted this year, I think I've read between like 25 and 30, and that's lower than I feel like in past years, which was interesting to me.
[03:49] I think it may be partly because of this giant book I'm reading. And I don't know, I think it's even hard for that of what you can read lots of short books.
[04:02] So even the number of books can be.
[04:06] Christina Donovan: Doesn't net different things. Yeah, I mean, I would expect. I read about 50 books a year.
[04:11] Tara Bansal: I do too.
[04:12] Christina Donovan: I average about a week a book a week. And again, sometimes I go through more and sometimes less. But yeah, that's probably, I would guess, my average.
[04:23] Tara Bansal: And I struggled with how to keep track of my books. Like, I do have a book journal from modern Ms. Darcy, but I don't really use it. I use it more for book recommendations than keeping track.
[04:38] More and more because of my eyesight and reading at night when I can't sleep, I read so much on my Kindle. And so those get recorded automatically to my Goodreads, which has helped a lot.
[04:55] But I had to look at Goodreads. I had to look at my library history because if it was a physical book, it didn't really get recorded onto Goodreads.
[05:05] And then I even just looked at like my Audible too, or just like library history. It was hard. I guess that was part of even looking at all my books.
[05:19] I feel like I may be missing one or two that I really loved because I just have this feeling. But I'm going with what was memorable and what I saw.
[05:28] Christina Donovan: Yeah, I think I'm the same way.
[05:31] I mean, I have multiple ways to look at the books I read, but I do feel like I don't have one that really is comprehensive and that I'm careful with.
[05:41] So I do also have this nagging feeling that I forgot maybe a good book or two. I guess the other thing, I mean, I don't know how many people look at critics best lists, but I feel like this year I've looked at various ones just to even get ideas for reading.
[05:59] And I would say this is the fewest number of books I've read on other critics lists.
[06:07] There are whole lists where I never even read one of the books. So maybe that helps. Maybe put together a reading list for next year.
[06:16] Christina Donovan: We'll see.
[06:19] Tara Bansal: Yeah, that's Right now I feel like I have a ton of books that are coming up or that I'm looking forward to, but, yeah, that's for a future time.
[06:31] And. Go ahead, Tina.
[06:32] Christina Donovan: Well, I was going to say. Do you want to just jump in? Do you want to start? Tara, give us.
[06:37] Tara Bansal: Why don't you start?
[06:40] Christina Donovan: Okay.
[06:41] One of.
[06:43] It's actually two books. I read the sequel first, which I have a tendency to do, but it's a pair of books by Joyce Maynard. The first one is Count the Ways, and then the sequel is how the Light Gets.
[06:58] And it's basically a. It's a story about three generations of a family, all told primarily through the eyes of the mother or the woman that kind of at the center of it with her children and her husband and her parents.
[07:15] And.
[07:16] I don't know, these books just really touched me.
[07:20] They're beautifully crafted, super readable, but, I mean, she covers a lot of different themes.
[07:27] They're joyful, they're heartbreaking. It's wise. And, I don't know, you know, you.
[07:34] Christina Donovan: This.
[07:34] Christina Donovan: It's. To essentially sum it up, this woman comes from kind of a. I don't know how to describe it. It's not a broken home, but an unhappy home. And her one goal in life is to create a happy family.
[07:47] And she does. I mean, it's like this magical place that she has a farm in New Hampshire. She has three children. She has this husband she adores, and you watch her kind of build this beautiful family, and then it all falls apart, all because of one traumatic incident.
[08:05] And it's not a sad book, though. And I guess that's what I love about it is you have this woman that, you know, her whole. The things that she cares about most, she loses.
[08:18] And again, because I read the sequel first, I knew what happened when I read the first book, which might have made it a little easier to get through some of the traumatic events that happen.
[08:29] But, you know, she ends up estranged from two of her children.
[08:33] She loses her husband in a divorce, and then he passes away. And I don't know, there's all these things, but she just. She carries on. And I feel like she shows just through a stoicism and a patience.
[08:49] She wins everyone back.
[08:51] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[08:52] Christina Donovan: Oh, and the ending is just. It's still sad. Like, even the ending is sad, but it's. It's a wonderful. Just. I don't know.
[09:02] As a mother and as a parent and as a spouse, there's so much you can relate to in the way she looks back on her life, particularly in the second book and the events that happened and how they help her kind of come to terms with the things that she has to deal with later in her life.
[09:21] And I don't know, there's a lot of lessons in there that really spoke to me. So I highly recommend reading books.
[09:30] Tara Bansal: That sounds incredible.
[09:31] Christina Donovan: Yeah.
[09:32] Tara Bansal: And these books will be in our show notes. So the show notes will have the list of the books we're talking about here. But that sounds really good. I. The book.
[09:43] Tara Bansal: I'm gonna.
[09:44] Tara Bansal: I'm gonna tell you right off the bat, I am terrible about reading. I mean, remembering, like, books and what happens in characters I read for enjoyment. So most of my books are not on most critics lists or, like, academic in the way that I feel like an English professor would choose the first book I'm going to talk about.
[10:12] And I think, Tina, you read, but maybe not the Heaven and Earth Grocery store by James McBride and I. This was on so many, like, favorite lists, and it came highly recommended.
[10:26] I think it came out last year. And so it was, you know, popular and highly recommended.
[10:34] I have read James McBride before, and I just think he is a beautiful writer.
[10:41] I wasn't sure I was going to be able to read this book because, as my husband says, I have a very low tolerance for people, for, like, depressing or sad.
[10:56] And part of that is because I'm reading for enjoyment. So if it feels too heavy or putting me in too depressing a mood, I may not finish it. But I also get very frustrated when people make what I, like, think are kind of poor decisions.
[11:17] And so there's many books I start and then don't finish. But the Heaven and Earth Grocery Store. Did you read it, Tina?
[11:25] Christina Donovan: I tried to read it.
[11:27] Tara Bansal: I couldn't.
[11:27] Christina Donovan: And you couldn't do it. And I keep hearing. I feel like I need to go back and give it a try, because.
[11:33] Tara Bansal: If Tina couldn't read it, like, I feel like Tina.
[11:37] There's so many books I can't read that Tina has read. But I got through this, and I just really enjoyed it. The characters were so interesting. It was very memorable in, like, how it was presented.
[11:54] It was just a book with unique characters and interesting things happened. It was about prejudice. It's about this small town, kind of like the haves and the have nots and the one prime central character, how beloved.
[12:16] She was both with the colored people, and she was Jewish.
[12:23] And I don't know. I just really. It did have a lot of hard parts, but I'm glad I read it. And it's A book that just stood out to me as one that I'm glad I read this past year.
[12:35] Christina Donovan: Yeah, I do think I'm gonna have to revisit that one. Cause you're not the only person I've heard that really loved that book.
[12:42] Tara Bansal: I'm gonna also. I didn't give it five stars. I had no book in 2024 that I gave five stars. I. I'm very stingy with giving out five stars. I think I may have 10, 15 books my whole life that I've given five stars.
[13:04] So just putting that out there. And there wasn't one book that I was this past year that I absolutely loved in 2023.
[13:16] The arc of a Scythe series was the one that I just like, loved, loved, loved, and recommended to everyone and raved about. So I didn't have that this year for whatever reason.
[13:28] Christina Donovan: Yeah, you have a high bar for. Yeah.
[13:34] Well, another book that I love this year, and it's not something I usually read.
[13:40] It's called Lost Man's Lane.
[13:43] It is by Scott Carson. And I have to say, first off, I don't read horror. I don't read Stephen King. I don't like books like that. And I got. I read about this book.
[13:55] I'm not sure where, probably online somewhere.
[13:59] And I got it quickly out of the library. And when I got it home, I saw that the little tag on the spine was listed as horror.
[14:07] And the library had put that on. And I almost didn't read it because I was just like, I'm not gonna like this.
[14:16] And I'm so glad that I decided to give it a try anyway, because first of all, I believe it was Ms. Mark. And second of all, I just really thought this book was fun and entertaining.
[14:28] A true, like, escape book in the sense that very easy to read. And I don't know, I've since seen it categorized as more of a mystery or thriller. And it's described as channeling Stephen King.
[14:44] But it's told in the first story, and it's. It basically starts out with a young man who gets pulled over for a drive, for a speeding ticket. He gets pulled over by a police officer, and while he's getting written up for the ticket, he sees a young woman in the backseat of the car who is visibly distressed and upset because of this.
[15:06] He pays attention to her and he gets his ticket and moves on. And then several days later, he sees a missing poster with this woman's or young woman's photograph on it.
[15:17] And he goes to the police station and tries to Tell his story. There's no record of the ticket, there's no record of the police officer. And he starts down this path to try to figure out what happened.
[15:30] It's a mystery, it's got supernatural elements, it's a coming of age story. And then the author makes the most unbelievable things seem believable, which I guess is, is part of it, but it's, it's not high literature.
[15:47] It is just a really fun, entertaining read. So that's, that's one that I look back on and said, yeah, you know, I was really sad when that book ended. Even though you're curious to find out how it ends.
[16:02] Tara Bansal: Yeah, man, Tina, you do a much better job.
[16:07] The next book I would like to talk about is Frozen river by Ariel Lahan. Did you read this one, Tina?
[16:15] Christina Donovan: I did and I liked it very much.
[16:17] Tara Bansal: I mean, probably one of my favorite books of all time was written by her code name, Helene.
[16:24] But that was not from 2024. But I highly recommend that one this is about. It takes place in 1789 in Maine. What stood out to me, I loved reading about the time period and what life was like back then and how things have changed and how things haven't changed.
[16:52] So the main character is Martha Ballard and she is a midwife and healer for her time. She was unique in that she kept a diary of all the. And documented the details of the labors and what she did in the town and who she saw and who she helped deliver and things like that.
[17:19] A friend tells her about being raped. Story is a lot about that. This accusation of rape and how she had documented it and the struggle around that. To me it's like how things have changed and how things haven't changed, especially around how women were treated and men were treated and the rights they were given and people in power, things like that.
[17:52] More than anything else around. I just loved hearing about where they lived, the time period, her family she had, I can't remember how many kids, but she lost three children.
[18:08] How normal that was back then. But like, we're not used to that these days.
[18:14] And her relationship with her husband, it.
[18:18] There were some parts that you wonder how truthful it was, but it was just the author took her diary. So I'm sure there are some parts that are fictionalized, but the story that she wanted to tell from Martha's perspective.
[18:35] Anything you would like to share, Tina?
[18:38] Christina Donovan: No. It's funny because that I think is one of the books that I somehow missed when I was going through my lists because I did really like It a lot, too, and found it super interesting for just the reasons, you know, you stated that the main character and her family are super interesting.
[19:01] Tara Bansal: Just.
[19:02] Yeah, all the characters I thought were interesting. Like, she has a son who is mute but is super smart and how people treat him differently. I don't know. There's lots of interesting layers to it.
[19:20] Christina Donovan: Yeah, yeah, I would agree. Definitely, definitely recommend if you haven't picked.
[19:25] Tara Bansal: It up and it is based on a real person, but it is from.
[19:31] Christina Donovan: That time in May.
[19:33] Christina Donovan: Yeah, yeah.
[19:34] Christina Donovan: I mean, one of the historical fiction books that I really liked. I like historical fiction generally, which was why I was drawn to Frozen River.
[19:44] But this was a book. It's called Turtle House, and it's a debut novel by Amanda Churchill. I don't know where I first heard about this book. I think I just stumbled across it in our new fiction section at the library.
[19:59] And I'm kind of surprised because I haven't heard anybody talk about it. But it is. I guess it's not a historical fiction in, like, the strict sense, but it's a story about a grandmother and a granddaughter.
[20:15] The granddaughter is an architect who has recently left a promising job because of a traumatic incident that kind of you read, you learn about as the story goes on. But she's moved back to her childhood home, and her grandmother, who is Japanese, has moved in as well because her house has burned to the ground.
[20:36] So the two of them are sharing a room. And her grandmother was brought to the United States after World War II as a.
[20:46] As a bride of a soldier of a U.S. soldier. And they settled in Texas through kind of sharing this room. At night, they talk. And she learns a lot about her grandmother's story and her grandmother's secrets.
[21:01] And it portrays Japan in Pre World War II, World War II, and then a little bit post World War II. And I found those accounts just really moving and interesting.
[21:16] I learned a lot just about a culture and about a time. You hear a lot about Germany and World War II, and I feel like there's a lot less just generally in fiction on Japan in Pre World War II.
[21:31] And then, of course, you know, the war that changed everything for them. Like.
[21:35] So, yeah, I thought it was definitely.
[21:40] It's a little different. And I love. I thought it was well written and just reading about occupied Tokyo and sort of how this family, her Miniko is the grandmother, how her family was affected, and just definitely worth checking out.
[22:04] And again, it's historical fiction because of that, but it also has some other modern elements. It takes place in Texas in 1990. So you kind of go back and forth.
[22:15] Tara Bansal: Yeah, that sounds interesting too.
[22:19] Next for me, I'm a big Elizabeth Strout fan and so I read almost everything she writes. I remember I didn't read her. I think it won the Pulitzer. Olive Kitteridge, probably till a decade after it came out.
[22:42] This year she had a new one come out and I think it's called Tell Me Everything.
[22:49] But this year I read My name is Lucy Barton, Tell Anything is Possible and Tell Me Everything. So all three kind of meshed together in my head. What I like about these books is the characters kind of stay the same and they swoop in and out and each chapter is like a snapshot of that character's kind of moment in life.
[23:20] And even though I feel like.
[23:24] Sounds similar, Tina, to the first book, there's a lot of really sad things that happen.
[23:31] There's this hopefulness and perseverance and resilience, like to the people and the characters in her books that I just really love. There's, you know, a big focus on poverty and the.
[23:53] Lucy Barton becomes this author and becomes published, but she came from nothing and this very dysfunctional home. I just. There's each of those books. I always enjoy them. So that's like a go to of.
[24:09] I know that's an author I enjoy. I love how she writes. I like the characters and they make you think, but yet not too hard. I don't know. There's definitely themes in there that you contemplate.
[24:27] So that was another set that all went together.
[24:32] Christina Donovan: Yeah. I think that is something about her books because the characters drop in and out, which makes it fun. But also I think it does make them hard to distinguish and I from each other.
[24:48] Tara Bansal: I think I've also read them out of order too. And you can do that because of the way they swoop in and out. Maybe. I don't know. That didn't seem to be an issue for me.
[24:57] Christina Donovan: I know I never seem to read books in order.
[25:00] Christina Donovan: Do you have any other fiction books, Tari, that you want to talk about?
[25:04] Tara Bansal: Oh, two real quick. I read a lot of young adult because one, they're generally easier to read. Usually they're not too upsetting for me.
[25:19] So just real quick on that. City Spies is a series that I really enjoy.
[25:25] They're by James Ponty. It's a group of kind of orphaned teenagers that this spy for the UK has kind of taken in. And they all have different talents and they all take place.
[25:46] Each book takes place in generally a different city. It's Almost like James Bond for a teenager.
[25:55] They're exciting, they're a quick read. I feel like when you learn stuff about the cities and each of like, one is a cybersecurity expert, one is, you know, they each have different talents.
[26:10] Yeah.
[26:11] And so the one that came out this year was Mission Manhattan and takes place in Manhattan. They're another go to that I enjoy. And the whole series, I think, is fun.
[26:25] I. I'm currently reading Gray Wolf by Louise Penny. That's a series that I unfortunately did not read in order and I feel like I wish I had read it in order, but she's another.
[26:40] I always enjoy them. They. It's. They're murder mysteries. They have the same characters. I think she's on book 17 or there's a lot. Yeah. And did you like that one?
[26:54] Christina Donovan: I did, yeah.
[26:55] Tara Bansal: If you like Louise Penny, it's, you know.
[26:58] Christina Donovan: Yeah, I really do like her books. They're very comfortable. I don't know, you kind of go at know going in what you're going to get and at this point, if you've read any of them, any of them.
[27:11] And yeah, they're like slipping into a warm fuzzy sweater and having a cup of tea. Like, they're just. I find them relaxing and enjoyable and a good escape.
[27:23] Tara Bansal: Yeah. Yes, very true. I didn't write this down, but I went back and read reread the Wrinkle in Time series.
[27:35] So it's called the Time Quartet and by Madeleine Lengle. And I've always been a huge Madeleine L'Engle fan when I was growing up. I feel like I read every single one of her books, even her adult and others.
[27:53] Either I didn't read them or I completely did not remember.
[28:01] I remembered Wrinkle in Time and I remember like one other, but I'm not sure I read all four of them.
[28:10] They make you think. I mean, like she said, they're not really science fiction, they're not really philosophy and Christianity, but they make you think.
[28:22] And I still feel like a lot of it probably went over my head that I'm not smart enough to fully grasp. But. But I fully. I did enjoy them. They are young adult and.
[28:37] Yeah. I don't think I enjoyed them as much as the Meet the Austen series. Teen. I don't know.
[28:43] Christina Donovan: I think the Meet the Austens are definitely lighter. Yeah.
[28:47] Tara Bansal: Than this.
[28:49] Christina Donovan: Yeah.
[28:51] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[28:51] Christina Donovan: No, they're classics.
[28:52] Tara Bansal: Yeah. They are a good family read.
[28:55] Christina Donovan: If you haven't, like, if you have kids and you're looking for a book that the whole family can read together. I think they're. That's a good choice.
[29:04] Tara Bansal: Yeah. And because any age can read it. Yes. I mean, it's. Yeah. So do you want to jump to non fiction?
[29:13] Tara Bansal: Yes.
[29:14] Christina Donovan: And I will say I don't read a lot of nonfiction.
[29:18] One of the things that has happened in the last couple of years is my book club has disintegrated, and I haven't really found a new one. And the one thing that I really relied on my old book club for was it kind of pulled me out of it, got me to read things that I wouldn't necessarily read on my own.
[29:39] And so.
[29:40] And some of that is nonfiction. I would say my book club read about 50. 50.
[29:46] Wow. Yeah. Nonfiction and fiction. So I have not read much nonfiction in the last, I'd say, two years.
[29:56] And I was a little reluctant to talk about this book because it's very geared towards me and my interests. But it's called the Light Eaters, and it's the New Science of Plant Intelligence.
[30:08] Tara Bansal: And I think that's cool. Yeah, it's.
[30:13] Christina Donovan: I actually heard the author. I'm not sure how to say her last name. It's Zoe Schleyer. I think she was on Fresh AIR with Terry Gross, and she was interviewed about her book.
[30:28] And I listened to the interview, actually twice because I found it so fascinating. And then I immediately wanted to read the book. I mean, I'm a plant lover. I love gardening, and I was just fascinated.
[30:41] She talks about just plant behavior in ways that we really don't think about in terms of intelligence and consciousness and whether we need to kind of expand our definition of those things to include things like plants.
[31:02] So there's lots of just interesting and fun plant descriptions and behaviors. And then again, this kind of philosophical idea of what constitutes intelligence, what constitutes consciousness. And, you know, it's so dictated by the human element that to kind of step outside and look at it from a plant perspective, I just loved.
[31:31] So it's a scientific. It's not a scientific book.
[31:36] It's basically written for a layperson, so it's not difficult reading. And I think she's an entertaining writer, and she's very fun to listen to, too. So even if you don't read this book, you might just want to check out the podcast with Terry Gross with Fresh Air and listen to this episode, because it's definitely super interesting.
[31:59] Tara Bansal: But I have to. I wish people could see Tina's in a room surrounded by plants right now. And it's like just the perfect picture of that. And even hearing you talk about that.
[32:13] That reminds me of braiding sweetgrass.
[32:15] How she talks about plants as, like, the wisdom of how long they have been on this earth and what they. Yeah. Like thinking of them as having intelligence. And there's lots of interesting.
[32:33] Christina Donovan: But that.
[32:34] Tara Bansal: That book sounds pretty cool. I'm not a plant person.
[32:39] I love plants, but I'm not very good with them. But Tina is an incredible gardener and has so many beautiful plants.
[32:50] My first I read. I do try to read 5050 nonfiction and fiction.
[32:58] Unfortunately, my book club rarely. I'm trying to think if they have done any nonfiction.
[33:06] I don't think I read as much nonfiction this year as I have in the past.
[33:12] But the first book was Hidden the Science of Achieving Greater Things by Adam Grant. I am an Adam Grant fan and this book talks about.
[33:28] I just love the premise of it is how much we can achieve through effort and in our society, we.
[33:41] He actually says we're obsessed with talent and celebrate gifted students and things that come naturally to people. But the book gives so many great stories and examples of how that.
[33:59] How if you make the effort and continue to develop and learn and how far you can go, growth is not about the genius you possess. It's about the character you develop.
[34:16] And.
[34:17] Christina Donovan: Yeah, sounds like a book everyone should read.
[34:20] Tara Bansal: I really do think everybody should read. It has such great stories that emphasize the point and you just. I don't know, it's kind of like cheering for the underdog. All of the stories are these people who may not have been born with the great talent and how far they've come and what they did.
[34:41] Yeah. So that was a really great book that I do recommend that everybody read.
[34:49] The next one is the Opposite of Spoiled. So I read a lot of financial books, the Opposite of Spoiled Raising Kids who Are Grounded, Generous, Smart About Money by Ron Lieber.
[35:03] And I've read a lot of books about kids and money. I thought this one. I've actually written a series of articles pulling what I thought were the most important parts from this book.
[35:16] The biggest takeaway is talk to your kids about money. And even, like, think about what values you want them to learn. And basically talking about money is talking about your values.
[35:32] There's lots of stories. You know, there's a story of this Jewish school that instead of people giving gifts for bar mitzvahs and bar mitzvahs, that they actually contribute and they have a foundation now that the kids decide where the money should go and just what an educational experience that was.
[36:00] And there's some.
[36:02] I don't know, it just Made you think I liked it.
[36:07] To me, what's interesting is Ron Lieber has worked for the New York Times and he was the editor that Carl Richards. He was Carl Richards editor and Carl Richards is someone I follow.
[36:23] I actually went to a retreat at his house this year and Ron Lieber and his wife, who is also this award winning journalist, were on 50 fires. So hearing, I don't know, reading the book and the book's not new, I thought was interesting of hearing him and his wife on that show.
[36:44] And then the last nonfiction that I wanted to highlight was called Scarcity. Brain Fix youx Craving Mindset and Rewire your Habits to Thrive with Enough by Michael Easter.
[37:00] I've read a couple of his books. He also wrote the Comfort Crisis, which was interesting. It's about why do we want more? And one of my favorite questions is, and it comes from Carl Richards.
[37:14] But I always ask like what is enough?
[37:18] And why as a human are we so driven and looking for more all the time when even more may not be what's best for us? And this talks about like socio, sociologically and also anthropologically.
[37:40] What's the word teen.
[37:43] Like how we are wired and why this happens. And now even how marketing. They use like scarcity cues. Like all that, like this offer only is going to end in five minutes or whatever.
[38:00] Right. Like and, and how to try to understand it so you can kind of take control. Yeah. And fight it. So he gives simple tactics that can shift us towards more of an abundance mindset instead of the scarcity.
[38:20] Talks about creating habits, which is always a big thing. I like a lot of like how to appreciate what we already have. So it goes to that like focusing on what is enough.
[38:33] But you learn a lot. Just he talks. He lives in Las Vegas. He's a professor in Las Vegas.
[38:42] And there's this a lot about gambling and how that became what it is today.
[38:52] And Yeah, I mean all of us have different addictions, you know, like with food or scrolling or shopping or. Yeah, all of it. And it talks about that. So I found that interesting too.
[39:09] I am reading, I guess it's nonfiction. This is a giant book that I'm reading with a colleague, Bob Ng, that we wanted to do it together.
[39:21] And the book is called the Matter with Things. Our brains, Our Delusions, the Unmaking of the world by Ian McGilchrist. McGilchrist, I'm not sure exactly how you say.
[39:35] It's a 3,000 page book. And my husband's like, I can't even believe you're doing this. But Laura Vanderkamp always does a year long project. And I decided to do this with Bob thinking it was going to be a year long project.
[39:55] And I actually thought like if I was consistent, I could get through the whole book, the 3,000 pages. I'm only one third through.
[40:04] And it is interesting. It's about the left brain versus the right brain. So the left brain is very. Logic, thinks linearly and culturally. And as a society we praise and focus on this logic side.
[40:26] But the book.
[40:28] And there's a good video that describes this 3,000 page book in like 15 minutes.
[40:34] But the right side of the brain is like the bigger picture, the intuition, like almost and how important the right side of the brain is.
[40:48] And yet the left side kind of like negates it or tries to take the lead. Yeah. Tries to fight it.
[40:57] I'm learning a lot.
[40:59] It's not the most exciting book. It is what I try to read when I can't sleep at night because sometimes it does help me, but I'm plodding through. I do try to read 15 to 20 minutes a day.
[41:15] And I feel like just the left brain and the right brain. You're hearing more and more about that. And it is interesting to me, but it's very long winded but fascinating in a.
[41:27] It's a book I would never have chosen and just a book of that length, I never would have even tried.
[41:36] Christina Donovan: But I assume you're reading that on your Kindle, right?
[41:39] Tara Bansal: I am.
[41:40] Christina Donovan: I can't imagine how big a 3000.
[41:42] Tara Bansal: Well, it's. It's actually in three volumes.
[41:46] Christina Donovan: Okay, I guess that makes sense still.
[41:47] Tara Bansal: But it's still like it is on my Kindle. And I feel like it's so much easier to have on your Kindle, but it takes a lot of space.
[42:00] Yeah, I feel like this was fun for me.
[42:02] Christina Donovan: I mean, my goodness, it's always fun to talk about books.
[42:06] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[42:07] Christina Donovan: The one last nonfiction book I have is. And I Won't Spend Too Much Time because you can look it up. But it's called An Unfinished Love Story, and it's a personal history of the 1960s.
[42:20] And it's written by. She's a popular historian, Doris Kearns Goodwin. And I think she writes best when she writes about her family and personal things that have affected her. And this is the story of her and her husband who worked in the Kennedy and Johnson administrations when they were young.
[42:43] And she also worked at the White House during that time on some type of fellowship. But yes, it's super interesting and definitely worth, worth checking out wow.
[42:55] Tara Bansal: We hope you will check out some of these books and yeah, we hope.
[43:01] Christina Donovan: You enjoyed listening about them.
[43:03] Tara Bansal: I definitely enjoy this conversation.
[43:06] One of my favorite questions to ask is always what book recommendations people have. I, you know, always want to know and we are a family of readers. It's one of my favorite things to do.
[43:22] I hope you enjoyed this as much as I did and Tina and I both wish everyone that's listening a very joyous and happy holiday season and new year. Hoping 2025 is filled with great things for you.
[43:42] Anything else, Tina?
[43:43] Christina Donovan: Nope. Happy reading and happy holidays.
[43:46] Tara Bansal: Yes. All right, thanks.
[43:48] Christina Donovan: This is Christina or Tina Conte Donovan. We began including a recommendation at the end of our episodes at the start of our second season. Of course, a recommendation at the end of this episode may seem unnecessary since this episode is essentially all book recommendations.
[44:08] My family, however, played a fun, easy game over the Thanksgiving break, and since a game is not a book and we are heading into the December holidays, we figured this would be an ideal time to include it.
[44:25] The game is a classic party game or icebreaker called Fishbowl or Salad Bowl. No one in my family, except my oldest who suggested it and then taught it to us had ever heard of it.
[44:38] However, instructions to this game can be easily found on the Internet. I'll give a brief description here, but we will include links of the written instructions that you can use if you wish to play.
[44:51] One of the best things about this game is that it only requires pencils or pens, paper, a timer, we used.
[45:00] Christina Donovan: One on our phone, and a container.
[45:04] Christina Donovan: To hold slips of paper like a bowl or bag or large cup. It is played in teams. You need a minimum of four people, but can be played with multiple players on multiple teams.
[45:17] All of the participants write a prompt and when I say a prompt, I basically mean a noun, a person, a.
[45:24] Christina Donovan: Place, a thing on a slip of paper.
[45:28] Christina Donovan: You can have everyone just do one prompt, or you can have people do three prompts or five prompts. Again, that's up to the group and how many people are playing.
[45:37] Christina Donovan: My family did five prompts per person.
[45:40] Christina Donovan: But the goal is to basically correctly guess as many of these prompts as possible in a one minute period.
[45:48] You get one point for each correct guess and whichever team gets the most points wins.
[45:56] The key here though is that the guessing is done over three rounds and each round is a little different. The first round is like the game Taboo, where you're not allowed to use any of the words contained in the prompt.
[46:12] The second round is classic Charades where you're not allowed to use any words at all to describe the prompt.
[46:20] And then the third round, you are only allowed to use one single word as a clue for the prompt, and you use these same prompts or slips of paper throughout the whole game.
[46:32] So by the time you get to the third round, everyone has heard all of the prompts at least twice. So we hope you will give this game a try, especially with the upcoming holidays.
[46:43] It is an easy and fun way to spend time with the people you love.
[46:48] And again, you don't need anything except probably things that you already have in your kitchen or in your living room. And again, we will post written instructions for the game.
[46:58] We'll include links to them. Just go to today's episode on our website www.messymiddallessons.com and go to the recommendations section and we'll have links there for the written instructions. We hope you give it a try.
[47:17] For show notes and other information about.
[47:19] Christina Donovan: Our podcast, please Visit our website messymiddlescence.com.
[47:25] Christina Donovan: If you enjoyed listening, please help spread the word about our podcast by sending a link to a family member or friend. And don't forget to leave a positive.
[47:34] Christina Donovan: Rating or review for us.
[47:36] Christina Donovan: As always, we hope you will return for more.
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Books discussed in this Episode:
Count the Ways and How the Light Gets in by Joyce Maynard
The Heaven and Earth Grocery Store by James McBride
Arc of a Scythe Series by Neal Shusterman
Lost Man’s Lane: A Novel by Scott Carson
The Turtle House by Amanda Churchill
Elizabeth Strout’s books -
The Gray Wolfby Louise Penny
The Winkle in Time Quintetby Madeleine L’Engle
The Light Eaters: The New Science of Plant Intelligence by Zoe Schlanger
“The Hidden World of Plant Intelligence” - Fresh Air Episode with Terry Gross and Zoe Schlayer
Braiding Sweetgrass: Indigenous Wisdom, Scientific Knowledge, and the Teachings of Plants by Robin Wall Kimmerer
Hidden Potential: The Science of Achieving Greater Things by Adam Grant
The Opposite of Spoiled: Raising Kids who are Grounded, Generous, and Smart about Money by Ron Lieber
Carl Richard’s 50 Fires Podcast Episode with Jodi Kantor and Ron Lieber
Scarcity Brain: Fix your Craving Mindset and Rewire your Habits to Thrive with Enough by Michael Easter
The Comfort Crisis: Embrace Discomfort to Reclaim your Wild, Happy, Healthy Self by Michael Easter
The Matter With Things: Our Brains, Our Delusions, and the Unmaking of the World by Iain McGilchrist
12 minute Video Explaining “The Matter with Things” by Iain McGilchrist
An Unfinished Love Story: A Personal History of the 1960s by Doris Kearn Goodwin
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Here are links to the written instructions for the game known as Salad Bowl or Fish Bowl:
OR