25. Radical Empathy: Some Thanksgiving Thoughts
“Today is about giving thanks. Today is about practicing radical empathy. Today is about acceptance of things as they are, not as you wish them be.”
The Thanksgiving holiday is just around the corner. We know some people for whom this is their absolute favorite holiday — full of food, friends, and family without the financial and commercial concerns of Christmas or Hanukkah. Similarly, we also know people who dread Thanksgiving because it highlights family division and dysfunction and/or creates a difficult environment for those struggling with weight issues or addiction. We, along with most people, fall somewhere in between.
We love the idea of a day devoted to giving thanks but it is easy to lose sight of the true meaning of the day with the emphasis on food and the stress that often comes with traveling and large groups. No matter where you are on the Thanksgiving spectrum, we hope you will join us as we discuss ideas and suggestions to emphasize gratitude and giving thanks this holiday.
We talk about our family traditions, offer easy ways to integrate gratitude into your day, and make some humble recommendations about the holiday meal. We also discuss some of the challenges of celebrating Thanksgiving during middlescence.
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[00:22] Tara Bansal: Hi, this is Tara Conti Bansal and I want to welcome you to season two of our podcast, Messy Middlescence. My sister Christina Conti Donovan and I are in the thick of midlife and trying to help ourselves and others to learn about and hopefully thrive in this unique phase of life. Like adolescence, middlescence is a time of tremendous change, touching almost every aspect of our lives. There are the physical and hormonal changes, but also many of the rhythms, relationships and frameworks that have dominated our lives for decades all start to shift in various ways. Tina and I are figuring this out as we go, and we hope you will join us as we dive into and discuss topics and ideas that will help all of us grow and understand this special midlife phase and how to live it better, more meaningfully and joyfully, one day at a time.
[01:22] Christina Donovan: Welcome. This is Christina or Tina Conte Donovan, and I am here with my sister Tara Conti Bansal. And today we're going to take, I guess I would call it a holiday pause from some of our more typical topics to talk about Thanksgiving. I know many people for whom Thanksgiving is their most favorite holiday. They love the focus on food and family versus gifts and decorations. Similarly, I know just as many people that really dread this holiday. It highlights family stress and division. And sometimes even the focus on food and drink can be tricky for those struggling with their weight or with addiction. I suspect that most of us fall somewhere in between those two, the love and the hate. And today we thought we would spend some time discussing strategies, traditions, ideas to try and keep the focus of the day on the thanks part, how to emphasize gratitude, thanks and joy in this Thanksgiving. Hopefully through those things, we thought maybe the first thing we would talk about is our Thanksgiving traditions when we were growing up. And this might seem a little unusual, but the thing I always remember about Thanksgiving is going to church every morning. And my parents still continue this tradition to this day. In fact, I haven't belonged to a church since I've been on my own that had a Thanksgiving service. Usually it's Wednesday evening, but somehow my parents have always managed to find a church that has a Thanksgiving morning Mass. And I think that's a great way to start a day of Thanksgiving.
[03:29] Tara Bansal: And that's what they always said was let's start this Thanksgiving thanking God. And it does surprise me, I think, because it's not part of the church liturgical calendar. And I mean, I feel like most churches have daily masses. But yeah, we always got up and went to 8:30 depending, you know, where we lived or 9 or early morning service. And I also remember my mom trying to get the turkey in the oven before we went to church. Right, team?
[04:10] Christina Donovan: I don't remember that. I guess I always remember her doing the turkey because our family growing up always ate late. We would eat our Thanksgiving dinner at dinner time, 6 or 6:30, which. So I think not everybody does partly. Why because we would come home and have a breakfast together. And then, you know, my parents, I remember them then working on getting the turkey in the oven.
[04:37] Tara Bansal: I think it was maybe prepping the turkey, not getting it in the oven before we left, but it was doing stuff still before we left. But yeah, our traditional Thanksgiving was. You went to church, we came home, we had a really nice big. We called it brunch, which was pretty. It was more special than a normal Sunday brunch. We used to have brunch after church every Sunday. And then the focus would be getting the Thanksgiving dinner, you know, the turkey in the oven and working on that. And then we. I feel like. Well, I'm jumping ahead. Like I'm trying to think, Tina, when we were young, what we would do. I think some of us helped in the kitchen and I think there is.
[05:32] Christina Donovan: Definitely watching a football. And I mean we always would have a fire in the fireplace in, you know, starting probably mid. Mid afternoon.
[05:45] Tara Bansal: And then we would have hors d'oeuvres and drinks even like for us it was special. We would get a soda. Yeah, we didn't have very often. And then as Tina said, we wouldn't eat dinner until like 6:00 or 7:00. And many families don't eat that late. But that was our traditional time. And I felt like. Tina, the food mom and dad served was from this one magazine of Bon Appetit.
[06:25] Christina Donovan: Right.
[06:25] Tara Bansal: Like this one or was it different things?
[06:28] Christina Donovan: Switched it up though.
[06:29] Tara Bansal: They did, yeah.
[06:30] Christina Donovan: Yeah. In fact, I think that's one thing. I mean our parents, they're not afraid to try new recipes and you know, they definitely did Thanksgivings with different types of turkeys and stuffings. And I mean they had their favorites, which I think were on repeat. But I know contrasting that to my in laws who serve the same. I don't want to call it basic because it sounds uncomplimentary, but I mean it's very much, you know, more traditional.
[07:07] Tara Bansal: Like they.
[07:08] Christina Donovan: Very traditional and. Yeah, and I mean, I love both. You know, I think that you can make a argument to do either or. Or both.
[07:18] Tara Bansal: I'll be up front. I was talking about this with my kids. The Other day, like, Thanksgiving is not my favorite food. And I feel like I'm the exception on that is I. I really don't enjoy the more traditional food that's served at Thanksgiving. And I'm more a pizza, pasta, different things. And. And yet, as I say it, I think it's special because I generally only have it once a year, you know, that it. And there is so much good food going to what Tina said in the intro. I think the holidays just bring this pressure that I don't look forward to. I want to enjoy it, and generally I do, but I just feel like there's this stress around hoping to enjoy it and the expectations that it needs to be great or. Yeah. Special. Yeah.
[08:31] Christina Donovan: And I guess I mean, sort of it related to that. I mean, one of the things that I have been doing really since I started hosting Thanksgiving, I mean, I made it to 50 years of age without ever cooking a Thanksgiving turkey. So when I started, it was stressful for me. It still is. It's not something that, you know, I've done for years and years. But on the days on Thanksgivings, regardless of whether I'm hosting or not, and I have been hosting, I would say, more in the last, like, seven years than I have not hosted. I mean, when I wake up in the morning, usually it's like, oh, I have this, like, all these lists in my head. I gotta get going. And I really try to sit back and take just five minutes and think about what Thanksgiving is, you know, what's important and what I'm grateful for. And before the hustle and bustle of the day, kind of get myself in the right frame of mind by just spending like it doesn't have to be long, five minutes, six minutes. And I have found that really makes a big difference for me. Yeah.
[09:46] Tara Bansal: To have that centering and that reminding and grounding of just before you start your day.
[09:53] Christina Donovan: And I guess the other thing. Anybody who is a subscriber to the Times, they have their cooking newsletter and Sam Sifton, who runs it, he always sends out a Thanksgiving email. It's usually when I open my email on Thanksgiving morning, it's the first thing I see, usually. And it's worth it to subscribe just for his emails on Thanksgiving. He does the best job giving you the most calming pep talk. He cracks me up and I kept last year's and. But every year they're sort of the same. But I love what he says, particularly last year, although that was the only one I could. That I had saved. And I guess I'D like to just read what he. How he opens.
[10:45] Tara Bansal: Yeah, please do.
[10:46] Christina Donovan: So, this is Sam Sifton from the Times. Here's what to note. Every little thing is going to be all right. You're going to serve the best meal that you can under the circumstances, and it's going to be delicious and well received. You are not going to change anyone's mind or behavior today. And that's all right, too. Put an ashtray out on the porch for Uncle Bertie. Change is not what today is about. Today is about giving thanks. Today is about practicing radical empathy. Today is about acceptance of things as they are, not as. Not as you wish them to be. Just do your best. Don't forget to breathe. And I bet it's a fantastic day. I love that idea of radical empathy and the idea that, you know, it doesn't have to be perfect.
[11:42] Tara Bansal: Yeah. And it's not going to be perfect. Right.
[11:45] Christina Donovan: And people aren't perfect. Don't try to change anybody this Thanksgiving or next Thanksgiving.
[11:52] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[11:53] Christina Donovan: Just accept where you're at, who you.
[11:56] Tara Bansal: Are and who other people are. Yeah. No, I love that. And part of me feels like, I guess it's good it comes out the day of. But I can see me not even, like, having time to read it. Thanksgiving, but. And I'll be up front. I have only hosted once in my whole entire life, so. And even then my parents came and helped, like, yeah, tremendously, because I had never done a turkey, never done, you know, all the different things. So I am, I guess I can say at least I've hosted once. But most people I feel like at my age have hosted way more than one time. But. And that, to me is one of the, you know, things of middlesence is for us, our parents did Thanksgiving for decades, and it is a little bit of the changing of the guard and this pressure. And oftentimes we may do it different or not meet the expectations of those who have done it before. And also juggling the young adults or sometimes the kids, the younger kids even. It's a lot. And yet I truly believe in us gathering around a table to have that time and sharing.
[13:43] Christina Donovan: Yeah, I think so, too. And Tara and I had been talking, I guess, just prior to this, and sort of ways that you, as a family or as a group, because a lot of times it's friends and family, you know, can really help express this gratitude and this Thanksgiving. And, you know, one of the things Terry had mentioned was spending time outside in nature on Thanksgiving Day. And I think if you can manage it, it's such a great way to spend a small part of the day.
[14:28] Tara Bansal: Yeah. Because there's always beauty. There's always. I don't know, the older I get, the more I love being out in nature. And yeah, the weather may not always make it possible, but if you can, even just for a little bit. And sometimes it can be a family short walk or a hike, but sometimes it can be for me, like you need some alone time or quiet time. And that can also be a way to take advantage of that. So that, to me is. If I had one tradition I would love is to be able to go outside for a little bit each Thanksgiving.
[15:19] Christina Donovan: Yeah. Fresh air is. It never hurts.
[15:23] Tara Bansal: Yes. And with so much food and drink about the day, taking a break and it can be a stroll, but just, you know, getting out of your seat and moving, I also think is nice. And I mean, after we were young and when my parents had their home in Alita every other year, it would be like a Conti Thanksgiving. And many of us, not necessarily all of us, would be able to come, but I feel like we say that.
[16:01] Christina Donovan: Again, would try to come.
[16:03] Tara Bansal: Yeah. I mean, Tina, you guys definitely were there. And I feel like because of where their home was, it was easy to go for a hike. And I just loved that to be able to take a break and go outside. I also feel like there were planned activities. One of the highlights was with the. All the nieces and nephews. We did gingerbread making house like there. We had a ping pong tournament. We had different things.
[16:36] Christina Donovan: Touch football. Yeah. Throughout the weekend, though, not all on things.
[16:41] Tara Bansal: Yeah, Definitely that. This was a long weekend that we got to spend together. And there were generally various activities that we would do together, which I felt like added so much to the holiday. I dislike the sitting around the table and people having to name something they're grateful for. And this is a holiday around giving thanks. And so, yes, gratitude is important. I think we know that. I'm trying. I hate being put on the spot, I guess is part of it.
[17:25] Christina Donovan: I love having to come up with something that sounds.
[17:29] Tara Bansal: It sounds eloquent and. Or different or. And not just the same old thing. I think, you know that most people, we say our health, we say, you know, our family.
[17:41] Christina Donovan: Yeah.
[17:41] Tara Bansal: Yeah. It's kind of the same old thing. So it doesn't. I don't know, it just doesn't feel satisfying to me. And so Tina and I were looking at some different options or other alternatives for, you know, not being on the spot. And one was like, I think it's called a gratitude tree where you can put out either little cards or cut out different color leaves and just leave them out for people to write something they're grateful for. And you can even do different prompts like, I'm grateful for my community because you know, like. Or I'm grateful for my body because I'm grateful for my family because you can, you know, come up with prompts also. Or just have multiple blank ones and then be like so you're not on the spot and you have time to think about it and do it when it feels right for you. And I think it's a very. Then you can put string and hang it either on a tree or hang it in different places just for people to look at and see. That's one that I thought another would be like a wreath. You could cut out leaves and put it. Glue it together on a wreath. That I think is beyond me, but that was the other idea. Another is a game where you come up with dice and then like posted if you got. If you did a one, you name a person you're thankful for. If you two name a place you're thankful for. So it gives you prompts and mixes it up in a random way. I think I also like that idea. We can post that in our notes.
[19:45] Christina Donovan: Yeah, I really liked that one.
[19:47] Tara Bansal: But yeah.
[19:47] Christina Donovan: Just to have that as a handout that people could feel like even without the game that people just write it in.
[19:54] Tara Bansal: Yeah. Like some of its recommendations. Like a song that you're thankful for or a tradition. Right. Like just to have. Be able to have people fill that in and let people look at it almost with them all together just then a.
[20:11] Christina Donovan: Not at the table but use them as a discussion point around in a small group or a larger group. You know, I had also seen where especially if you have extended family to bring out photo albums. Especially now with digital pictures. Photo. I don't mean to say they're never photo albums. Most of them are photo books. But you know, photo albums with actual pictures in them and share them. And they can serve as a jumping off point for talking about shared memories and stories. Stories and I mean those in themselves are ways of expressing gratitude and thankfulness for, you know, for the people around us.
[21:02] Tara Bansal: I know my boys love one.
[21:04] Christina Donovan: You know, say that again, Tina. And for the people that came before us.
[21:09] Tara Bansal: Yeah. Who may not be there. That are missing and. Yeah. And keep their memory alive and acknowledge that they're not there. Yeah. That they're missed.
[21:22] Christina Donovan: I agree.
[21:24] Tara Bansal: I heard on this podcast it was A money podcast, because I listen. It's Carl Richards 50 Fires, where.
[21:35] Tara Bansal: The.
[21:36] Tara Bansal: Person being interviewed talked about one of their traditions was they only had two kids, but they gave each child a hundred dollar bill and over Thanksgiving weekend that their child got to give it to someone. They. They could choose anyone. They often gave it to someone in the service industry that they saw. Um, and he talked about, like, that was one of their favorite traditions because it was a significant dollar amount. And the people who they gave it to were just so appreciative and surprised. And he said there was often tears, but just that I thought that was nice. Um, I'd never heard, you know, something like that. It could also be used for other holidays, but you know that these people were working on or around the Thanksgiving holiday. And every year they, you know, had some fun. The kids did, trying to decide who and when they wanted to give it. I thought that was nice. Yeah.
[22:49] Christina Donovan: I had never heard of that. And it's. Yeah, it makes you think, I'm sure. What. What a different and unusual tradition. But, you know, again, it kind of calls to spreading joy.
[23:04] Tara Bansal: Yeah. And I like that it was a tradition that they did it every year. Yeah, that's true. Another is, it's kind of similar, but have like a gratitude jar that people put in things they're grateful for and which could be done over the weekend or over the day for immediate families. You can have the jar and keep it over the whole year and then randomly pick out ones to read the next year. I liked that too. I like that it does keep gratefulness. More of the daily instead of once a year thing. Try to have it be a consistent focus because I don't know, there's. There's always something to be grateful for, and it can really shift your mindset if you do look for it. I think.
[24:08] Christina Donovan: I think so too.
[24:10] Tara Bansal: Tina, do you want to share the one that your good friend did?
[24:18] Christina Donovan: I know someone that it was one of the younger people in their generation in their family, one of the younger generations set up, like their phone to record little, I guess you would call them like vignettes, but people would go in and record themselves. I saw the final product, so it looked like it had been in a powder room, but it could be just in a small room or a place where it's quiet and they're by themselves. And they basically used like an iPhone to record 30 seconds of them either saying anything. And that's what made this fun. There were people that came in and talked about what they were grateful for. What they meant to them. But then someone came in and just burped. And so you got to see everybody that was there and you saw the different personalities come out. And it was a mix of really fun and some solemn and some eloquent. Like it was just this wide mix. But when you saw it all together, I guess, you know, then they spliced it all together. It was just a beautiful snapshot of their day together. And I loved it.
[25:35] Tara Bansal: Creating something to remember the day by.
[25:39] Christina Donovan: Right.
[25:40] Tara Bansal: Like, and because I do feel Thanksgiving.
[25:44] Christina Donovan: Is the one day I feel like we never take pictures.
[25:47] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[25:49] Christina Donovan: Sometimes at the end of the night, like I'll make my three kids stand in front of the fireplace and they're like, they're complaining but like. And that's usually the one shot, you know.
[25:59] Tara Bansal: Yeah, I completely agree. Like, I feel like for us at Christmas growing up, that's what we have the most pictures are around Christmas and even with our family. But so I love that idea of just the video of the different people saying whatever they want. You could also have some prompts or.
[26:22] Christina Donovan: Different, you know, and I guess that's the thing is they can record it and erase it, you know, like, I mean you can redo it. It's not like, here's your 10 seconds. Yeah, say what you need to and move on. But yeah, it came out great. I don't know if they'll continue to do that as a family, but I was so impressed and I enjoyed watching it.
[26:46] Tara Bansal: And you don't even know the people as well, you know. Yeah, it was fun. Any other things that you read about.
[26:54] Christina Donovan: Or different ways covered the ones that I liked. I mean there is a lot out there, you know, so you can just.
[27:01] Tara Bansal: Like, yeah, the power of Google or AI like look and search for some unique or different ways. I keep going back to just the importance of connection and being together and trying to keep that intention as the focus. For me, part of the holiday is planning ahead and for me it's setting expectations for myself and for those around you, like Tina said with that Sam Sifton quote. But I know I'm an introvert and I love my family, but it can still that many people at one time can feel like a lot for me. And so I know planning ahead, like trying to do better self care of, like getting sleep if possible, taking alone time. Like I said, sometimes I need to go for a walk by myself or go read just to quiet myself and help myself be able to handle and enjoy the rest of the time. And at this point my husband now knows I need to do that. And people hopefully aren't too offended. But it's something that I've learned with age that that's what I need in order to more fully enjoy the day and the time the whole weekend. So that was just one other thing that. To make sure you do what you need. Cause that's then better for everyone else. I think it can be challenging. So it's more in an ideal world. But if you can think ahead and try to plan and communicate that, I think it will also be good. Yeah.
[29:09] Christina Donovan: And I mean, for people who are hosting, I think Terry, like, couldn't believe it when I said this, but I mean, I really question how important the food is. And this is somebody who enjoyed. I love Thanksgiving. I love Thanksgiving food. But even when things go wrong, it's really hard to have what I would call a sleep failure. I know wasn't. It was two years ago. We had an awful turkey. I can't even tell you what went wrong with it, but it was bad. I mean, it just didn't taste, well, good. It did. It wasn't cooked well. I don't know. And I was embarrassed. I think my husband was a little embarrassed too. But that was one piece of a huge meal. You know, the sides were still good. The dessert, like, if something doesn't come out, usually there's enough food that. Yeah, you know, it kind of can compensate. So feel like food, especially if you serve the same things year after year, it tends to just blend. I don't know. And looking back at Thanksgivings, it's not specific dishes or specific foods that I think of. It's who was there, what we talked about. Things like traditions like we just mentioned, like those to me are the things that stand out. And not one turkey on one Thanksgiving or one side dish or one dessert. And I guess I just feel like people who are hosting need to keep that in mind. That you want it to be perfect, you want it to be the best Thanksgiving ever. But it's fine if it's not. It is, as we keep saying, it's about the people that are there and about taking the time to be together. That is the most important thing.
[31:05] Tara Bansal: And when things go wrong, just like at a wedding, that's what you will remember. The funny stories. I mean, Tina, I feel like we've heard some funny stories of other families where, you know, of. That's what stands out. Say that again.
[31:24] Christina Donovan: The oven breaks. The turkey isn't defrosted. I don't know.
[31:28] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[31:28] Christina Donovan: Like there are. There are lots of stories, and that's what it becomes.
[31:33] Tara Bansal: And to keep that in mind, I think part of my reaction to that is the amount of effort that you want it to feel worthwhile and. But to let go of that. I think that, you know, like, that's my reaction. And as I'm saying, it's like. But that's not that that can ruin it. If you hold onto that and to once again set your expectations that that's not what's most important. Yeah.
[32:03] Christina Donovan: And I know in our household, I mean, for instance, this year, it's just really my family, my children, my husband, my parents will be there this year. We don't have an exceptionally large group that I'm cooking for. And, I mean, I have found that when I'm stressed out, my kids don't enjoy it. Like, this idea that I want it all to be perfect for them. If it's making. If they feel me stressed out, it lessens their enjoyment. And that's a really. That was a hard but important lesson for me to learn that it doesn't matter if the food is perfect if everybody is stressed out and unhappy by the time we get to the table. Um, how did you.
[32:48] Tara Bansal: How was that communicated to you? Or do you just notice that?
[32:52] Christina Donovan: Oh, yeah. No, you could just. Yeah. I mean, I think. Well, my eldest probably did communicate it because she does things like that.
[33:03] Tara Bansal: She's good with that.
[33:04] Christina Donovan: Very in tune with how people are feeling and stuff. But, yeah, I mean, I can tell by the way they want to help if. If I'm stressed out, they. They want to start participating to de. Stress me. And I mean, I pick up on all of that. And that's, you know, again, that's not why. That's not. The Thanksgiving we want to have is, you know, oh, mom's so stressed out. Like, this is awful.
[33:31] Tara Bansal: And I think that's really important because that can, you know, make the day not nearly as enjoyable.
[33:41] Christina Donovan: Yeah.
[33:42] Tara Bansal: And everybody. You have the best intention, but it's the stress that can make right.
[33:48] Christina Donovan: Like, I mean, I guess to me, yeah, it. What's the point of having something that's perfect if everybody is unhappy? I don't know. I mean, I guess, too, it's. You don't need to impress anybody with Thanksgiving. I know that there are people out there that feel that way, but I wish they wouldn't.
[34:09] Tara Bansal: Yeah. No, I agree. The other is accept help. I mean, generally, if from your own family, that's there, like Tina said, her kids and. But if other people are coming, you can make assignments. You can ask, you know, like, please bring a salad or please bring a side or please bring dessert or wine or. Yeah. To help spread. So it's not all on you and one family. Yeah. And the other is. I feel like a lot of cookbooks and magazines talk about what you can do ahead to try to make not so much be done on the actual day. And that, to me, is also because I want to spend time with the people. And yes, you can be in the kitchen with people doing it, but stuff that can be done ahead. I'm a big fan of whenever I'm trying to host because, yeah, it's just one less thing, if possible. So try to mitigate that. I agree on traveling. I mean, this goes to. So as I said, I've only hosted once. And generally, we were or we are traveling almost every single year for Thanksgiving to see either my family or Nimitz family. Now it's much more. Thanksgiving has become the holiday we spend with Nimit’s family. A big part is once again setting expectations. It's going to be chaotic. It's going to be crowded. Things will not. Things are gonna take longer than you think. I mean. And yeah, I mean, Tina, when you drove oftentimes either up to Massachusetts or down, like, how much extra time did it take when you drove? It's. It's just one of those things that I know, driving across the Pennsylvania Turnpike, unless you're going to leave at a crazy early time or crazy late time, it's going to. It's going to be not what you expect, you know, and so to change those expectations and try to have some extra patience with all the people. Everybody's stressed. Everybody's in a rush. Yeah, to me, that's a big part of it. I don't love traveling around the holidays, especially flying because flights get canceled. And then what do you do? I mean, one time, I think we couldn't find parking at the airport. Like, we hadn't planned ahead and searching for parking was stressful, or there was an accident. Driving to the airport and the white knuckling. Are we going to make our flight? Are we going to get through security? Is not fun. So I don't know that I have any great words of advice around traveling except try to be patient and plan, you know, extra. Extra cushion time for what, you know, it could be or what you expect. Yeah, yeah.
[37:48] Christina Donovan: We used to travel every Thanksgiving until my children became high schoolers. And there's a big event here on Wednesday and Thursday, the Wednesday before, and then Thanksgiving Day. And so it was really, that caused us to stop traveling for Thanksgiving. And I suspect at some point we will start traveling again. At some point.
[38:12] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[38:13] Christina Donovan: But. Yeah, we haven't traveled for a while, but I remember. Well, it made it a difficult week. Preparing for the travel, Surviving the travel. Yeah.
[38:25] Tara Bansal: That's the other is. I know Nimit and I don't fight that often, but getting ready to go or being on the trip is when we can be snappy most at each other. And as Tina said, that can make things not enjoyable.
[38:46] Christina Donovan: Right.
[38:46] Tara Bansal: And to remember that what comes to mind for just difficulties or with Thanksgiving during middlescence. Tina, for you. Well, you alluded or I think you.
[39:01] Christina Donovan: Directly mentioned this a little bit in the beginning, but I think it is the realization that maybe the Thanksgivings you've had year after year are going to change. We have, we know plenty of families where this is last Thanksgiving or this Thanksgiving is the first one where one of their children isn't coming home or somebody who passed away will not be there. And, you know, I think you see more and more of that and that is hard. You know, it's the realization that things are changing.
[39:44] Tara Bansal: Yeah. And missing people. And missing people. Yeah.
[39:50] Christina Donovan: And I mean, also going back to this idea of perfect, you know, as your people as relatives and friends get older, will this be their last Thanksgiving? Like, and if it is, the pressures around trying to make it perfect and trying to make it be everything one last time I think can be especially difficult. So, yeah, I do think that it can be a very difficult time for people in middlescence. There's kind of all these things happening, you know, and.
[40:32] Tara Bansal: Yeah. A lot of big emotions that can come up that as a result of that. Yep. And family can be stressful. You know, like you, we know how to push each other's buttons and even though we love each other, it can. There can be tension. And I think because of the big emotions, it can be harder at times.
[41:00] Christina Donovan: Yeah. And that's especially why I love Sam Sifton's Radical Empathy.
[41:06] Tara Bansal: Remember, that's our takeaway for, I think we're going to name this episode Radical Empathy Thanksgiving.
[41:15] Christina Donovan: True. I mean, if there ever was a time to just try to love the people that are there and accept them for who they are and for the way things are and, you know, just try to be in the moment and try to minimize expectations around yourself and around those you love and just.
[41:38] Tara Bansal: Yeah, that's the pressure does not help anything. And so however or whatever it takes for you to try to let go of that and for me like try to be in the moment. We talked about not taking pictures. We want some pictures but yet put your phones away. Ask people to put their phones away and to be present with each other. Anything else Tina?
[42:10] Christina Donovan: No, I think we covered enough.
[42:12] Tara Bansal: Yeah. I mean I hope this gave you some ideas and some things to think about as the holiday approaches. And we wish you the best Thanksgiving. You know, hopefully it can be relaxing and enjoyable and giving thanks for what we all have. Thank you, thank you.
[42:37] Christina Donovan: This is Tina and I will be making our recommendation for our Thanksgiving episode. It is a bit unorthodox. I am going to make some suggestions on wine to drink with your Thanksgiving celebration. I am neither a sommelier nor a snob when it comes to wine, but I do enjoy tasting and learning about wine. So here it goes. First, if you are hosting and do not drink wine but wish to serve it, I highly recommend asking one of your guests who does drink wine to bring wine as their contribution to the meal. Similarly, if you have been asked to bring wine, I recommend checking with the host on how many bottles they would like and if they have any preferences. And then regardless of whether you are hosting and serving wine or bringing wine, I suggest particularly if you are eating midday or mid afternoon, lighter, fruitier reds and drier perhaps sparkling whites. For reds, we love serving Lambrusco and Cote du Rhone with our meal and I've listed two such wines in our show notes that we have enjoyed in the past. For non reds, I actually recommend a Sparkling and a Chenin Blanc. For those guests that prefer white. Again, I have listed two wines that we have enjoyed in the past with Thanksgiving meals in our show notes. All of the wines that are listed in the show notes cost between 15 and $20 per bottle. They they they're pretty reasonable and they are all very drinkable, both with or without food. So cheers. Happy Thanksgiving.
[44:37] Christina Donovan: For show notes and other information about our podcast, please Visit our website messymiddlescence.com if you enjoyed listening, please help spread the word about our podcast by sending a link to a family member or friend. And don't forget to leave a positive rating or review for us. As always, we hope you will return for more.
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Activities for Giving Thanks:
We liked these ideas from Marie Bostwick’s website
These ideas and activities that we mentioned on the episode came from The Big Life Journal. Tara is a big fan of their stuff and has been for many years.
Here is a link to Carl Richard’s 50 Fires. A Podcast Sparking Conversations About Money That Actually Matter. The tradition of each of his children giving $100 away was mentioned in this episode with Jerry Colonna.
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Wine Recommendations:
Reds:
Lambrusco: a very light, fruity, slightly carbonated red; serve chilled with or without food; very drinkable; we like Cleto Chiarli Lambrusco Grasparossa di Vecchia Modena Nero Vigneto Cialdini ($18-20)
Cotes Du Rhone: similar to a pinot noir, a lighter varietal red; very drinkable; we recommend E. Guigal Cotes du Rhone Rouge ($15-18)
Non-Reds:
Sparkling Rose; if serving a sparkling, try this rose; mostly dry with a hint of sweet; serve as an apertif before the big meal but also good with food. We like Antucurra Cherie Sparkling Rose Mendoza ($15-20)
Chenin Blanc: dry, crisp and slightly fruity - chenin blancs are our first choice when it comes to white wine. We prefer those from the Vouvray region of France but there are also very good ones from South Africa. A classic standby for us is the Barton & Guestier Vouvray ($18-20):