24. Where I’m Meant to Be with Mary Carolyn Conti
“I imagine Messy Middlescence is being brave enough to recognize what our gifts are and put them out there. ”
We are thrilled to share our conversation with our sister-in-law, Mary Carolyn Conti. A true artist in every sense of the word, Mary Carolyn is a writer, singer, photographer and theater producer extraordinaire. And her joy and excitement about her middlescence years are downright palpable and, as a result, a bit contagious too. It is impossible not to get caught up in her energy and optimism as she talks about her plans and goals for her next phase.
In today’s episode we discuss with her:
how she has changed for the better as she has aged
the significance of life experiences to her work as an artist
cherishing these last years with her kids at home
the importance of having a partner who supports and help you achieve your goals
two pieces of theatre that inspire her own writing
the emergence of health issues for the first time
what she is most proud of
her courage in sharing her gifts with the world.
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[00:22] Tara Bansal: Hi, this is Tara Conti Bansal and I want to welcome you to season two of our podcast, Messy Middlescence. My sister Christina Conti Donovan and I are in the thick of midlife and trying to help ourselves and others to learn about and hopefully thrive in this unique phase of life. Like adolescence, Middlescence is a time of tremendous change, touching almost every aspects of our lives. There are the physical and hormonal changes, but also many of the rhythms, relationships and frameworks that have dominated our lives for decades all start to shift in various ways. Tina and I are figuring this out as we go, and we hope you will join us as we dive into and discuss topics and ideas that will help all of us grow and understand this special midlife phase and how to live it better, more meaningfully and joyfully, one day at a time. Good morning, welcome. This is Tara Conti Bansal and I am here with Christina Conti Donovan. And we are lucky enough to have our sister in law, Mary Carolyn Conti. I'm so glad to have you here. Thank you, Mary Carolyn, for taking the time. Tina and I have been looking forward to this. So to put Mary Carolyn in the birth order and place of our family. She is married to our brother Tim, who is the fifth child but the first boy. And you hear us kind of talk about the girls and the boys and the Conti family. She, like, Anne is an only child, so was brave enough, I feel like, too jump into this huge, chaotic family which must be so different from, you know, you're growing up. But we all love her. And I feel like I don't even like saying sister in law because I think of her as part of our family. So we always start Mary Carolyn with a question I like from Brene Brown of Just tell us your story, like where, like growing up, where you grew up, what it was like.
[02:49] Mary Carolyn Conti: Okay, so I was actually born in California. We moved to Georgia when I was six. I was born the only child of an only child and my dad had one sister whose kids were all much older than me. So, like, I am like an ultimate only child and I am super introverted and I was a latchkey kid. So, like, my favorite place to be is alone. So to your point, yes, your family was slightly terrifying when I first met them all. It is like Tim and I speak a different language sometimes. It's. It's so funny, our interactions. I'm like, I don't understand what's happening at all. He was like, it's okay. It's normal to have siblings and do These things, which has been helpful when I'm raising. It's weird to be an only child and raised three kids. Anyway, I'm getting ahead of myself. So we moved to Georgia. And I really consider myself a Georgia girl, a Southern girl, which you can probably tell by my accent. I took my first theater class when I was in middle school and kind of like that decided the fate of my life because I fell in love. And my mom found Performing Arts High school in Atlanta. So they took their only daughter to the public transit station every day. And I took Marta into downtown Atlanta by myself, which I can't fathom doing for my own kids right now. But it was amazing. It was just like fame. I loved it. I went on to New York City, where I majored in theater, which was also amazing to be that close to Broadway. I graduated, and once mom and dad stopped paying, I moved back to Atlanta because New York is really expensive. I stayed in theater. I've always done theater. At some point in there, I met your brother. We had three kids who were all amazing humans. Professionally, I've done a lot of different random jobs, but I've always had my foot in the door of theater. When I. The kids were a little older, I sort of, in the span of a year, I was offered to help at the Advent, the Christmas pageant program at our church. I was offered to help to be a theater teacher at a studio. And then I was offered to run a theater program at a local theater by our house. And they were all like, super part time. So I did all three. And that's sort of where my purpose in life was born. When I realized that teaching theater to kids and watching it change their lives was the best thing on the planet. And since then, I have written and directed umpteen children's plays and worked with hundreds of kids and watched theater change most of their lives. Not theater's, not for everyone, but it has changed a majority of their lives. And I did work as a photographer for a while. Hated that job. Hated it. Don't know why. And then most recently, I was actually at. I worked at Lowe's, which is a hardware store. I don't know if it's everywhere. It's here in the South. And I just left that job last Thursday, actually. And now I don't know what's next. That's me. And enough to.
[06:02] Tara Bansal: Well, I. To me, being so introverted and being in love with theater seems like a contradiction. Can you help me understand that?
[06:16] Mary Carolyn Conti: Yeah, it's actually pretty common to be introverted and Be in theater, because I think being introverted is more about displaying, like, small talk and displaying yourself. Whereas when you're in theater, that's not you. You become someone else and you have someone else's word. And you. It's almost like you get to be someone else for a little while, which helps you live outside yourself. But then you can run back into your introverted world and be okay again.
[06:46] Christina Donovan: Can you spend a minute talking about all your artistic endeavors? I mean, you're a photographer. You're a tremendous singer. Your love of music. I mean, you do a lot of artistic things beyond theater. Do you want to just talk about some of them for a few minutes?
[07:04] Mary Carolyn Conti: I was an actor in and I did musical theater, and I sing with my church. And it's a weird thing to be an artist and talk about yourself without sounding like you're bragging. I don't know. But I. I do. I. Let me put it this way. I have been told many times that I do have a very nice voice, and I do get picked a lot for solos, so I'm assuming that means something. I love singing. I love singing with my girls. They both have absolutely gorgeous voices, and the three of us harmonize, and it's like, oh, it's amazing. Photography is a hobby I picked up in college, and I love taking pictures, and I love, you know, using that as an artistic outlet. Turns out I don't like someone else telling me how to take pictures. I think that's why I didn't like that other job, because I wanted to do it my way. And so I don't think I enjoyed having someone else tell me what to do, which I guess no one does. I've been doing it with the kids, and I started using it in theater because I take headshots and I take pictures of the stage. I do a lot of stage photography, which I volunteer. I do a lot of volunteering. So, like, for the my oldest or my middle daughter school, I do all the theater photography. I take the headshots of the actors. I take the pictures of the shows. And so it's funny how it's all connected.
[08:22] Christina Donovan: And you take some amazing nature shots.
[08:25] Tara Bansal: Yeah, I keep saying that you should. You should publish a book because I love your photography. And I would definitely buy a coffee table book.
[08:40] Mary Carolyn Conti: Thank you.
[08:41] Christina Donovan: I mean, I know you write plays. Do you do other writing besides drama or theater?
[08:49] Mary Carolyn Conti: No. I used to. Back in college, I used to write, but theater writing is my jam, so to speak. I love it. I love everything about it. And it's That's. That's my spot. That's where I'm supposed to be. And you know that and I know that.
[09:08] Tara Bansal: Yes.
[09:09] Mary Carolyn Conti: I tried to step out of that a few times and it didn't go well. And I was like, okay, I got it. This is where I'm supposed to be.
[09:15] Tara Bansal: I'm amazed that your parents with an only child one let you go on the marta, you know, to go to school, and then allowed you to go to New York City for college.
[09:30] Mary Carolyn Conti: I still. I think about that, especially now I've sent my own kid to college. I marvel at that all the time and think how hard that must have been for them and how grateful I am that they made that sacrifice, because I can't imagine doing that.
[09:45] Tara Bansal: It does. It blows me away. It shows what type of people they were and how much they care about what you cared about and wanted you.
[09:54] Mary Carolyn Conti: Yes.
[09:54] Tara Bansal: To have that.
[09:55] Mary Carolyn Conti: They're great. They're great.
[09:57] Tara Bansal: They are great. Sweetie. We agree. What was high school like for you?
[10:05] Mary Carolyn Conti: It was probably very different than most high school experiences. Like, I tell the story that I didn't even know we had a football team until I was a junior because it just wasn't a big deal at our school.
[10:20] Tara Bansal: How big. How big a school was it?
[10:24] Mary Carolyn Conti: So it was. It was a pretty decent sized school, the way Atlanta public schools does their. They have magnets. I think other places do this, too. But for anyone who doesn't know a magnet is. You can live inside the city and even outside the city and go to any of the schools you want if you're studying in that program. So it was kind of like a regular high school. And then the magnet side was, the performing arts side.
[10:46] Tara Bansal: Just like fame.
[10:48] Mary Carolyn Conti: Yes, just like fame. And it was like. Like my dad, you know, when I first started to do this, my dad wasn't sure, and he said, you know, Mary Carolyn, this is not going to be like fame. It's not like you're going to go to school and people are just going to burst out into song. And I think my second day of school, we were on the bus. There was a bus that picked all of us up at the MARTA station. There was a school bus that got us at marta. And we took the MARTA bus, I mean, the school bus, to the school. And it was like the second day of school, we were riding on the school bus to the MARTA station and somebody started singing. And by the end of it, the entire bus was singing and dancing and clapping. And I got home that night and I said, dad, it's just like fame. He put his head down on the table and he said, I give up. And ever since then, it's been like they've supported me 100%. It was just a really cool place to go to school. And I still have friends, you know, very close friendships from there. And the experiences we got. We went to Europe and did what's called a tour show where we went and sang and danced around Europe. And it was. It was. I. It was amazing. It was wonderful. I loved it. And it, you know, you still had to do math and science and all the classes that maybe you didn't love, but then you got to go to spend three and four hours of the day doing performing arts or fine arts or whatever the art was that you were into.
[12:08] Tara Bansal: Pretty cool. What's important to you right now? So Mary Carolyn gave us permission. She is turning 50 on January 1st. I always love that she gets to celebrate her birthday with the whole world on New Year's Eve into New Year's Day, and it's always a holiday. So with the big five zero coming up, what. What's most important to you right now?
[12:37] Mary Carolyn Conti: So I think I'm in this weird place and I think, Tina, you're kind of here too, where it's like I have two kids who are basically out the door, but then I have one kid who still needs mom. Like, my son broke his wrist over the weekend. And I spent the lives. Spent the last three days doing appointments and going to specialists and doing the CAC thing. And it's taken up a majority of the last two days. So I'm still solidly in that mom place. But also I can see the future of what it's going to be like when they're all gone. And so it's a strange. Really excited but really sad at the same time. And so I think I'm trying to focus on the excited part. And I think. I think 50 is going to be a whole new phase. And I'm pretty excited about it. I'm pretty excited about. I've got these ideas and plans in my head. I think if you're an artist, you always have something you're working towards and other people too. I just relate to artists the most. So I've got these plans and these big dreams in my head, and I feel like I'm sort of starting to work on them. But once the kids are gone, like, I'll be able to really focus on this. And I. They could take us a lot of cool places and they could do a lot of Cool things. And it's exciting to think about.
[13:59] Tara Bansal: What grade is Ben in? Ben is your youngest.
[14:03] Mary Carolyn Conti: Yes. He's a freshman.
[14:04] Tara Bansal: Okay.
[14:05] Mary Carolyn Conti: So four more years of him being here. But I mean, you know, once they get a car, you don't see them.
[14:13] Tara Bansal: Very often, which you already know.
[14:16] Mary Carolyn Conti: Yeah.
[14:17] Tara Bansal: And then Liz is a senior.
[14:20] Mary Carolyn Conti: Yes.
[14:21] Tara Bansal: And. And then Carrie is in college.
[14:25] Mary Carolyn Conti: And Carrie is actually currently. She is in college. She had a long story short, she was in kind of a training accident at her college last year and she fractured two vertebrae in her back. So this year she's living at home and going to classes locally. So we can kind of get her taken care of. So I have a bonus. I call it my bonus year because she's not supposed to be here. I get one more year of everybody at home. But then next year in August, both the girls will leave at the same time and I will be a puddle of tears on the floor. But it'll be okay because that's what they're supposed to do. And then it'll just be Ben. And he's already dreading all of my attention on him all the time.
[15:10] Christina Donovan: I know, I can say, I mean, we're in that phase right now where my older two children are gone and my youngest son is a senior in high school and he's essentially been an only child for three or four years now. I mean, since he started high school, his older siblings have been gone and it's, it's a different situation. I don't know, it's. It definitely takes some adjusting, I think, both for the parents and for the child. I don't know. I, I do. I, I consciously work at not being just Adam all the time, you know, like trying to like keep myself back. Because it can, I mean, you, it's, that's at least for me, that's my instinct to kind of just be totally asking him what he's doing, where he's going, what's going on and you know, and he's, he's. It's, it's just, it's hard. You really need to consciously work on stepping. At least I did. Stepping back.
[16:12] Mary Carolyn Conti: No, I, and I'm such a, I feel like I'm such an involved, hands on mom and it's going to be like I go from being involved in three lives to one life and all that energy has to go somewhere. So yeah, it's going to take work to not extend it all to him.
[16:25] Tara Bansal: Are you willing to share some of your ideas or things that you're looking forward to?
[16:32] Mary Carolyn Conti: They're still sort of theoretical, but I can say that it involves a lot of writing and the potential to publish some of the writings and then travel around. You know, who knows what the universe has in store? But my plan is to travel around and work on producing the writing. All the writing I'm doing. There's like a big umbrella bucket list I have of writing, and so it will all be under that umbrella. And then going around and producing shows in different. In different places. I love doing that. I love. This is getting ahead of myself. I happen to know one of the questions you ask later is, well, ask.
[17:15] Tara Bansal: I mean, go ahead.
[17:16] Mary Carolyn Conti: So I can't remember how you word it, but something like something you look forward to or something you enjoy or. What's the question? Sorry.
[17:25] Tara Bansal: No, I don't. Well, the question. I don't know if this is it. If money or time is not an issue, what would you love to do?
[17:35] Christina Donovan: Is that it?
[17:36] Mary Carolyn Conti: Yes. And so I would. I would write and produce plays because there's just nothing like standing in the back of a theater watching people react to the words you've written. I mean, I love my family and my. And my. They're wonderful. And like, my wedding day is still my favorite day ever. You guys were both there. It was a lot of fun. But a very close second is standing in the back of the theater watching people react to my writing. There's just nothing like it. So that's what I hope to do a lot of. Once I'm not. Solely once I'm not mom is not the number one thing.
[18:16] Tara Bansal: Most of the things you write, are they for a target age or because you talk about working with kids in theater? So are most of yours targeted at high school or not? What?
[18:32] Mary Carolyn Conti: No. So I. I'm sure you guys have seen enough Disney movies to kind of know that there. Disney movies are, like, written for kids, but really they're also written for adults, or at least the newer ones. They're written so that adults will enjoy them, too. That's kind of what I do. I try to write so that the kids will have fun performing, but really I'm writing for the adults because they're the ones who have to sit there and watch it. And I'll. The kids will be reading a line and they'll be like, I don't understand this. And I'll be like, I promise you, your parents will think it's funny. Just say it. But I have started also writing for adults, too. I did. The last play I produced was an adult show, and it was it was funny. I mean, I. Again, it's. I hate. The one weird thing about being an artist is you have to brag on yourself. But, like, I was in the audience watching people, like, wipe tears away from their eyes. They were laughing so hard and, like, yay. That's my goal.
[19:28] Tara Bansal: That's success. Yeah. Don't be humble. You are incredible. And nobody's going to. I get that. That feels uncomfortable, but you should be bragging about yourself, and we want you to.
[19:42] Christina Donovan: So, I mean, what would you say some of the challenges you expected to have kind of in these years when your kids are a little bit older or getting ready to leave or leaving the home? And are they different from things that you expected?
[20:02] Mary Carolyn Conti: I think I expected to be sad. I mean, there's definitely a grieving process watching your kids leave the house. And there. It's like that expression of motherhood is a weird job because you're basically preparing your kids to not need you anymore. And there's definitely a sadness to that. And I expected that. What I didn't expect was having to watch them go through all these big adult problems and not really being able to help. Like, I can offer advice, but in the end, it's on them to make the choices, and it's on them to accept the consequences. And that's really hard to watch sometimes.
[20:44] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[20:45] Christina Donovan: Yeah, I know. I mean, they talk about how you don't sleep a lot when your kids are really young, like babies and toddlers. But I think there's something to be said for when your kids are in high school and sometimes college that you have a lot of slee nights, because it's that. It's that feeling of helplessness that you really. There. There aren't things that you can do. And even if there are, you probably shouldn't. Like, it's theirs to kind of figure out, and it's. It can be really difficult. I agree with that a hundred percent.
[21:19] Mary Carolyn Conti: Yes. And. And it's. And the hardest thing is to keep your mouth shut when you know they're about to make a terrible choice. And you've given your advice, but it goes ignored. Yes. And if you give it again, I mean, it's just nag. At some point, it just becomes nagging, and that's not helpful. So you just have to shut your mouth and watch them make mistakes. But mistakes are important. I know they're important, but, man, it's not fun watching them go through it.
[21:46] Tara Bansal: Yeah. That's how we all learn, too.
[21:50] Mary Carolyn Conti: Yes.
[21:50] Tara Bansal: I get. Yeah. How about for you just even Personally, like, I don't know, Tina and I. I just feel like the physical changes of midlife have. Are challenging. I don't know. Do you feel like that's true for you or what? Are you willing to share?
[22:14] Mary Carolyn Conti: Yes. I. In the last two months, I've been hit by, like, three different medical situations, all, like, literally all in the same month. And like, I was telling Tim the other day, I was like, I just can't eat anything. Like, nothing, because I have this problem, and I can't eat these things. I have this problem, so I can't eat these things. I have this thing, and when I eat this, this happens. So it's like, I'm just gonna live on bread and water. Actually, I can't eat bread anymore. Never mind. I'm gonna live on applesauce and water for the rest of my life because it's just easier than trying to figure all this out. It's like your body is like, we're. We're gonna take a break for a little while. We'll see you in a few years. Yeah. Frustrating.
[22:49] Tara Bansal: I agree. I don't know what else to say for that. But it.
[22:55] Christina Donovan: We've been there.
[22:55] Tara Bansal: We. We understand it can feel overwhelming. I mean. And I just started on a new medication, and I don't love how I'm feeling. And it's like. But is it because of lack of sleep? Is it because of menopause? Is it because of, like, you know, I. There's too many variables, and I don't know how to, you know, like, figure it out. And it. It stinks.
[23:22] Mary Carolyn Conti: It's frustrating, and it's. And it's hard because, I mean, I've been lucky to have some good doctors, but I've also had some terrible doctors who don't necessarily believe you when you tell them the things you're feeling and they write it off. And then you're just sitting here struggling, and then you have to go find someone else. And the new doctor's like, oh, well, it's this. And I'm like, wow, I wish someone had told me that a year ago. Then maybe I wouldn't have suffered this whole year.
[23:45] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[23:45] Mary Carolyn Conti: And it feels a little bit like you're kind of on your own to figure some of this stuff out.
[23:50] Tara Bansal: So. Is midlife and middle essence what you thought it would be?
[23:55] Mary Carolyn Conti: I don't know. I'm trying to. I'm trying to decide what I thought it would be. And I. And I think part of the problem is I don't believe I'm in middle I still think of myself as 20 years old until I do something and my body's like, oh, you're not. You're not 20 anymore. And then I realize, right, I am middle aged. And that's such a weird. That's such a weird thing to say about yourself. I am middle aged and I think I haven't fully accepted it yet, if that makes sense. The excite. I guess I'm also focusing on the excitement of what the second half of life might look like. I mean, get the kids through school successfully, get them on their own, and then enjoy the spoils of your labor, I guess. And that has so much exciting potential that I'm just focusing on that for now when I can.
[24:55] Tara Bansal: The freedom of that.
[24:57] Christina Donovan: Yeah, I know we're hoping to talk to Tim, your husband, in the future, but I mean, are there things that. Plans that you guys have together that you talk about or hope to do?
[25:10] Mary Carolyn Conti: Yeah, for the next phase, definitely. He has very grand plans. Your brother is a dreamer and he has got a lot of big, exciting things he wants to do. And he usually makes things happen when he want. I mean, that is something about him, that if he wants it, it's going to happen. So I'm just like, great, do it. Let's do this. We have. We. We used to be solid beach people. Like, we were going to retire to the beach and it was going to be great. But recently we've sort of fallen in love with the mountains. But Tim's like, well, let's just have a place in both places. And I'm like, oh, okay, well, sure, let's do that. Yeah. But I think we'll probably end up with a small place somewhere and do a lot of traveling. He did not. He's not a big traveler, which is interesting because I feel like the rest of your family really likes it.
[26:01] Christina Donovan: Although he travels a lot for work, which he does, I think can affect that.
[26:06] Mary Carolyn Conti: Yeah, he's not a. He's not always excited to go to new places. I think he likes comfort and control and to know what's going to happen. But we went to Europe over the summer and I think that was his first time in Europe. And I think when he was there, he was like, oh, well, this isn't that different. Like, I can do this. And so now he's like, well, let's go to this place and let's go to this place. And now that he's done it, he's like, I can do this.
[26:33] Tara Bansal: And do you love to travel?
[26:35] Mary Carolyn Conti: Oh, I love it so much. Yes, I would, I would travel. I would travel as much as I could. That's what I want to spend my money on, is traveling and taking the kids to experiences and taking us to experiences and seeing all the things other.
[26:48] Tara Bansal: Countries and other cultures you want.
[26:50] Mary Carolyn Conti: Yeah. And this country, I feel like there's so much to offer. This country has so many different, what is the word? Topographies that I feel like there's so much to see here and yes, other cultures and all of it. I love going to new places.
[27:05] Tara Bansal: It almost sounds like you're planning on ramping up. Like, I don't know if you call it work wise, but things that you want to do. Is that correct?
[27:18] Mary Carolyn Conti: Yeah, I would say yes. I mean, I think so. I, I know I just talked about all these different jobs I had, but for the most part I was essentially, I mean I had, they were all tiny, tiny part time jobs for the most part. I've been a stay at home mom for the last, you know, almost 20 years. And that's a bit of a sacrifice financially. I mean, when only one person is making the money, you can't do the things that. And, and I was, I mean, we were both happy to make that sacrifice. I'm not complaining about it, but once I start having this full time job, all of a sudden we're going to have money to do things like travel and do way more stuff. And I'm. That's exciting.
[27:58] Tara Bansal: That is. And I, I feel like, I don't know. We haven't talked about this much on the podcast, but I was talking to someone yesterday and they were saying like, for women, either you kind of build some career before kids, it's really hard. I mean, I know some people do it while they, they make a choice if they're, you know, going to keep working while they have their kids at home, sometimes with a nanny or with, you know, other things, but. And then there's those that like really start building their true calling and career after their kids are done. And I feel like that's being highlighted, as it should, more and more like that this is an exciting new phase, as you said, that you can go after what you want and be able to focus on it in a different way that you couldn't with your children.
[29:04] Mary Carolyn Conti: And you have, and you have. I mean, I can't fathom writing the way I do 20 years ago because I have all this life experience now and I have all these. My ideals have changed and I have changed and the way I write now is so much deeper and so much richer. I. I couldn't. I couldn't do what I'm doing now. I couldn't have done it 20 years ago. Like, it. It. It wouldn't have worked. It would have fallen flat. Whereas now I. My writing is so much richer. And I think, yeah, that's partly because of the experiences I've had. And I think to your point, like, it's. Now is the time for me to start, and I'm excited to start. And it's a little scary, but it's exciting.
[29:47] Christina Donovan: I mean, how would you say you're not yet 50, so you're a lot younger than Tara and I, but how would you say your perception of time has changed? How you're writing is different because you are older? I mean, as you get older, how do you view time? Has that changed?
[30:09] Mary Carolyn Conti: Yes, it is definitely more precious, and it definitely feels like it goes faster. I used to be a big, you know, X the days off the calendar as you count down to another to the next big event. And now I'm much more like, let's just enjoy this day. Let's just enjoy this time. You know, I go, like I said, I. I have a bonus year with all my kids at home, and I. There aren't many nights that I don't go to bed, like, taking a second to be grateful that everybody is together in the same house, because I know that is rapidly coming to an end. And so I think time has changed in the sense that I just slow down and appreciate it more, which I realize is a little trite, but it's so true.
[30:55] Christina Donovan: I know for me, Covid was awful, and I'm not trying to cast a golden glow on it at all, but I had all three of my kids home because of COVID And as awful as those years were, I mean, we had that one year where everybody was here, and I. I was grateful for that time because it was sort of just a. It was. It was a bonus. That's how I looked at. Like, it was not something that really should have been. And there's not much I look back on Covid fondly with, but that having my kids under the same roof for, like, an extra six, eight months was really special. So I hear you on that.
[31:41] Tara Bansal: Yeah. And just knowing it's going to end, I think makes you view it differently and appreciate it in a different way also, because, you know, it has an end point.
[31:54] Mary Carolyn Conti: Yes. And I know. And I know what it feels like. Like, I. I don't know if I'm just extra. I know I Am extra. My kids tell me I'm extra all the time. But, like, I grieved pretty hard when Carrie left. Like, that was a hard time. And I know it's coming back, but I think because of her injury, because she's been. Her life is on cause right now. So I think part of me is just excited for her to get back out there and start living life again. So I'm hoping that's the part that takes over when she leaves, because I really am excited for her. Accident has changed her future. Like, she will no longer be able to do what she had originally planned. So we had to. She had to pivot. And I think she's pretty excited about what she's going to do instead. And I'm. It's nice to see her that way because she was down in the dumps for a long time about it. So it's. I'm so sad that they're leaving, but for her especially, I'm also so ready for her to get out there and live her life.
[32:53] Tara Bansal: And to that point, like, seeing she had plans and things she were. She was excited about. And now because of her injury, there is a whole podcast, I think it's called a Slight Change of Plans. For people that have had to do that. Right. Like that due to an accident or an illness, that what they had planned, they have to pivot and how people have handled that. And just hearing you talk about it, there's a mourning to that, too. Right. I mean, a grieving of the future you imagined is not exactly. It's not what you're going to have anymore and how to adjust to that.
[33:41] Mary Carolyn Conti: Right. And she. I mean, we've all done it, but she's done an amazing job of adjusting. I'm proud of her for that because it was hard.
[33:52] Tara Bansal: Yeah. And what is she now focusing on and planning or hoping?
[33:58] Mary Carolyn Conti: Well, as you probably know from having any minutes of conversation with her, she is obsessed with weather. And so.
[34:06] Tara Bansal: Which is a Conti thing I have.
[34:09] Mary Carolyn Conti: Yes, it is. Yes, it is. I have a picture of her and Tim both watching their prospective weather radar, trying to see if, you know, what the weather was going to be like. It's definitely a Conti thing, but she's going to study meteorology, and most likely she's going to end up, like, in the tornado alley, like, studying it where the magic happens. And she's pretty excited about it.
[34:37] Tara Bansal: That's awesome. That's great. Yeah.
[34:40] Christina Donovan: I mean, I don't know if Carrie is interested in becoming like, a weather journalist, you know, like A weather person on television, but just with her theater and background, I think that would be just such a great combination. I mean, she's so talented too, with, with music and drama and then combine that with the, the weather. It kind of seems like it's that perfect.
[35:07] Tara Bansal: I could see her making.
[35:10] Christina Donovan: It into her on television. Doing, Doing the weather.
[35:14] Mary Carolyn Conti: Yes. I hope that's the right. Now, see, so she, she was going to join the military, which is a terrifying thought, but now she wants to be a storm chaser. So I'm like, can you just give your mother a break, please? Like, can you not do something that's going to risk your life? So, yes, if she chose to go on TV and be a television meteorologist, I would love that over being a storm chaser.
[35:39] Tara Bansal: But you may not have a choice.
[35:40] Mary Carolyn Conti: I do not have a choice. I learned it. I finally learned it. I shut my mouth. Now I don't have a choice.
[35:47] Tara Bansal: Yeah, I want to go back. You said you feel like you've changed, you know, in the past 20 years. How do you feel like you've changed?
[36:01] Mary Carolyn Conti: I've changed a lot. I've changed a lot. I don't know, life lessons and self help books and some therapy thrown in there. I've done a lot of changing. I think mostly for the better. I know that. I tell you, watching your brother has helped in a way that. So being an only child, you don't get conflict the way someone with a sibling does. You don't have the conflict resolution. You don't have, hey, we can fight and five minutes later we're fine. Like, we don't have any of that. Especially because I also didn't grow up with cousins. Like, I was on my. It was me and a bunch of adults most of the time. So I would think a fight was, was it like you fight and that's it, you're never going to speak to each other again. And I would, and I would from, I think from that place. And also being a Southerner, you know, Southerners are just taught to put their feelings second to everybody else. And I think those two places made me a pretty extreme people pleaser. And I would say one of the biggest ways I've changed in a good way, is I don't do that anymore. Like, I have watched your brother have fights on the phone with his friends and then five minutes later they were fine. And I'm just like, how do you do that? Like, what? Teach me your ways. Like, it's amazing. And I've learned how to stand up for myself. And how to say, no, I'm not okay with that, and no, I don't want to do that. And the. And when I think back about the amount of stress I put myself under and sometimes I put my family under because I was scared to tell people no, it's. It's mind blow. But, you know, the way we grew up was just different. And I had. I had to go through my process to get there. And that's probably the biggest way of changing the way I'm the most proud that I've changed. Because it's not selfish to put yourself first. And it took me a long time to. I mean, don't always put yourself first, but it's okay to say no to things and it's okay to say, this is outside my comfort zone. This is out my. Outside my boundaries. No, no, no. Yeah, I think that that would be the biggest.
[38:23] Christina Donovan: I mean, I do think. I don't want to speak for you, but I know there's definitely a piece of being an only child that plays into that. But I also think that's just very common for women, that there's a cultural expectation that I think is set especially for our generation that is very hard to overcome. So I don't think it's just being an only child. I do think that there's also cultural implications there. That. And. Yeah, I don't think you're unusual in that respect either, I guess, is what I'm saying.
[39:01] Mary Carolyn Conti: Yeah, I agree. I totally agree that women are. Yes. Culturally put in that in meaning. That's expected for sure.
[39:08] Christina Donovan: I mean, I'm. How great for your daughters that you've been, you know, like. No, I think it's important for daughters to see their parents, you know, in that role, be able to stand up for themselves and set boundaries. I mean, that's how they learn is watching their parents and my.
[39:27] Mary Carolyn Conti: Yeah, they do not. They do not do with that. They are very good at setting boundaries. And I've learned from them too. Like, I tell you what, Liz, who's the middle one, she. She used to be so mouthy and so quiet, and we were all worried about her. And I do not worry about her anymore. She. I've learned from her. I've watched her set these boundaries that I didn't understand always and I didn't necessarily think were right. And then, you know, six months later, something would happen. I would be like, oh, she was right. That was a good boundary. And it's. I'm proud of them for having that. And I definitely. Some of that Is Tim. Because he. They watched him stand by his boundaries. I mean, he has no problem doing that. But I've grown into that too.
[40:17] Tara Bansal: And I think that's something to be proud of. And. I don't know. Yeah. The older I get, the more I agree with you. It's not selfish to say what you want. Sometimes it makes things easier for everyone around you because if you're happier, then they're happier and. Go ahead.
[40:42] Mary Carolyn Conti: Yes. Well, no, I just. I have this story that it's, like, so perfectly illustrates why the sometimes, many times, the better thing to do is to say no. Like, I was. Was when we moved into a new school, and I was trying to impress people, which is often my. My fatal flaw. So I agreed to do, be in charge of the muffins with mom, because I was like, oh, I'll buy muffins and I'll decorate, and it's fine. No big deal. Well, it turns out the majority of that committee is asking, Going to stores and asking for free stuff, which is literally my idea of hell, like, horrible. Like, I will do anything except ask people for free stuff. So I agonized for months and months, and I would complain to Tim and I would, you know. And finally Tim was like, just tell them you can't do it. So finally I did. I went to the woman, and then I threw her into turmoil because now she had to find a new person. And then the new person, I threw that person into turmoil because they only had, like, a month to figure it all out. So all these people are in turmoil now, and all I had to do was say no in the beginning, and they would have said, okay, no problem, and found someone else. Like, it wasn't a big deal for me to say no, but instead I caused chaos to all these other people. And I think about that when I. When I want to say no, but I'm scared to. I'm like, ah, but it's probably the right thing to do because you won't cause chaos down the line.
[42:07] Tara Bansal: And to listen to yourself earlier and. But sometimes it's not that clear because you did say yes because you wanted to get involved. Like, you had other reasons.
[42:18] Mary Carolyn Conti: And so I've learned to say what I've finally taught myself, because my instinct is, yes, yes, I'll do it. Yes, I'll do it. And it's oftentimes chaos. What I've learned to say is, and it's taken a long time to get the yes instinct down and to say, let me check my schedule. So simple, right? So easy. Five words changed my life because now I can go home. I can think out of the emotion of it, Is this something I want to do? Is this something I have time to do? Is this something that's going to benefit all the people involved? And if any of that is no, then I say no, I'm sorry, I can't do it. But it took years to get to the point where the words that came out of my mouth were, let me check my schedule.
[43:01] Tara Bansal: Which is a good lesson, I feel like for me, trying to say no more often is like, if it's not a hell yes, then try to say no. And even that. It sounds easy, but it's not always that easy.
[43:22] Mary Carolyn Conti: Right?
[43:23] Christina Donovan: Looking back, you just talked about some of the things you've learned. Do you have. What are some of the regrets you have looking back on, like, the last 20 years?
[43:34] Mary Carolyn Conti: That's a good question.
[43:38] Tara Bansal: Can you rephrase it to like, I don't know, Some people hate the word regret. And so if you, like, what words of advice would you have for your younger self? Like, going back.
[43:50] Mary Carolyn Conti: Okay, yeah, it's hard.
[43:51] Tara Bansal: That makes it easier.
[43:53] Mary Carolyn Conti: I'm sure I have regrets. I know I do. But I, It's. It's hard to, like, look at anything that, like. Because I really like where I am. So it's hard to think like, what, if anything, I did differently brought me somewhere else. You know what I mean? But I think what I just said was, would be the biggest piece of advice is learn that no is okay. Learn that no is a complete sentence. Learn that it's okay to say no. And people aren't going to be mad at you. Like, they're not going to. Or if they are, then that's on them, not you. Like, it's okay to say, oh, gosh, that sounds not at all like something I'm interested in. No, thank you. They'll find someone else. They will. And your life will be easier. So I guess, yeah, that would be a regret. Or something I wish I'd learned earlier was say no, it's okay.
[44:44] Tara Bansal: Is there anything you're struggling with right now?
[44:50] Mary Carolyn Conti: Just this health stuff. Like, it's, it's relatively all consuming at this point, trying to figure out how to maneuver this because it's, you know, like we talked about age and your body changing and it's, it's never something I had to think about. I've never really had health problems. Like, I mean, I've. I'm clumsy, so I injure myself a lot. But that's different than, like, Internal health problems. I've never had those. And it's. It's a lot. And it's scary because you get a new pain, and you're like, well, what is that? What's. What's going on now? Like, what. What's happening now? What have I done now?
[45:31] Tara Bansal: Any words of advice around that, or are you just in the thick of it?
[45:36] Mary Carolyn Conti: Well, I think. Don't let someone tell you it's not true. Like, I went to several doctors who said, oh, it's. It's just this, or, oh, it's just that. And I'm. And I'm thinking, well, it's not because I know my body, and I know I trust myself, and I know that it's something more. So find someone who believes you. Like, there's a million doctors out there. Don't be afraid. Like, I. I ghosted a doctor one time because I was like, you don't believe me, and I don't want to waste my time and money with you anymore. So I just never called or went back. And I have no. No regrets about that, because he wasn't listening, and I needed to find someone who would listen to me because I knew something was going on.
[46:20] Tara Bansal: That's good advice. That is.
[46:23] Christina Donovan: One thing that I think happens around this time is you start losing trust in the medical profession. I don't know. I know so many people that just have stories where doctors don't listen to them or they get wrong or bad advice. And I don't know. I mean, I look back, like, all through my 20s and 30s, a doctor said something. I believed it. And I don't know what it is, whether it's something in the medical profession or. It's just as you get older, you're less inclined to just believe what you're told. Yeah. I don't know.
[46:58] Tara Bansal: It's.
[46:58] Christina Donovan: It is.
[46:59] Tara Bansal: And also maybe knowing your body better.
[47:01] Christina Donovan: Better.
[47:01] Tara Bansal: I don't know. Yeah.
[47:02] Christina Donovan: It could be a combination.
[47:04] Tara Bansal: And for me, just recently, it's. I feel like you hear different things from different doctors that either contradict or. And that's part of the other is almost wanting this, like, coordinated care.
[47:19] Mary Carolyn Conti: Yeah. That.
[47:22] Tara Bansal: Feels more difficult than I feel like it should.
[47:26] Mary Carolyn Conti: Right. Yes. Like having doctors who actually talk to each other or.
[47:30] Tara Bansal: Or no. Yeah.
[47:32] Mary Carolyn Conti: Or at least don't you. Like you said, at least don't say polar opposites where you're like, okay, well, who. Who do I go with?
[47:38] Tara Bansal: Who should I listen to? Yeah. Gonna ask, like, what would you say have been the biggest changes in your life up till now?
[47:51] Mary Carolyn Conti: Like whole life or just adult life?
[47:54] Tara Bansal: Either.
[47:57] Mary Carolyn Conti: My, let's see, my parents got divorced when I was 27, which is weird, but that was a big change. Learning to live with, you know, that changed. That changed everything about my life. That was pretty big. Getting married, obviously, that's big. Learning to suddenly live with another human being who's very different from you. I mean, I love your brother very much, but he and I are very different. And that took a lot of getting used to, the kids. That was huge. I don't think people tell you enough how big a change it is to have a child.
[48:38] Christina Donovan: I don't think they can't or people wouldn't procreate. I think if everybody knew that, then I don't think as many people would have children, honestly.
[48:49] Mary Carolyn Conti: That's a good point. That's a good point.
[48:51] Tara Bansal: But I also think it's something you can't even explain until you go through it. I don't know.
[48:58] Christina Donovan: You have to experience it.
[49:00] Tara Bansal: Understand.
[49:01] Christina Donovan: Yeah.
[49:01] Mary Carolyn Conti: Because it is like earth shakingly. Life is different. And it. I mean, obviously at this moment, I love it, but I'm not gonna lie, there are moments when Carrie was a newborn that I was like, what have I done?
[49:17] Tara Bansal: Yeah, I, I did not enjoy the little baby face. And even Nimit now will be like, we'll see a baby. And he's like, don't you miss that? And I'm like, no, no, me neither.
[49:31] Mary Carolyn Conti: Not at all. I, I didn't either. But I mean, Carrie didn't sleep till she was 2 years old. Like, it was. I don't know that I had the. I mean, I know nobody has an easy experience, but she was, she was extreme. She was extreme. And I just. Yeah, I don't miss it at all. I missed when they're like, I missed the, what they call the sweet spot where they're like older and kind of independent, but they still want to be around mommy. I miss that time, but I really enjoy them now. Like, I. I keep hearing that having adult children is amazing, and I'm so looking forward to that.
[50:11] Tara Bansal: I might say years are almost there.
[50:14] Mary Carolyn Conti: Maybe Carrie's close. I'm starting to see adulty things in Carrie.
[50:22] Christina Donovan: I like that term, adulty.
[50:25] Tara Bansal: What are you most proud of?
[50:29] Mary Carolyn Conti: Ooh, probably my kids, my marriage and my writing. My. I'm, as you may have already noticed, I'm really proud of my writing. I don't. I think part of the reason I'm so proud of it is because I didn't know I could do it. I didn't know, I was. I didn't know this was a gift I had until I was forced into it and I had to do it and I did it and it was like. The first one was like, oh, this is actually pretty good. And then the more I got into it, the more I realized, like, this is like an actual gift. Like, this is actually something you're really good at. I am really proud of that because the number of people who leave my shows saying, I only do comedies, I'm not. I'm not a serious person at all. And so. But the number of people who leave my shows saying, I haven't laughed that hard in a long time or I can't stop smiling or that was. That changed my mood. I mean, that's. That's awesome. It's. It's amazing to hear that you've made someone's life better, even if it's just for an hour.
[51:31] Tara Bansal: It's.
[51:32] Mary Carolyn Conti: It's. I am so proud of that.
[51:36] Tara Bansal: That's incredible. Yeah, that is a gift.
[51:39] Christina Donovan: Do you have any writers or people that you look to for inspiration or that you consider role models?
[51:49] Mary Carolyn Conti: Probably. I'm terrible at names. I could tell you the shows I've seen that I. That have.
[51:56] Tara Bansal: That's fine.
[51:57] Mary Carolyn Conti: The show, I don't know if you've ever heard of it. It's called the Unabridged, the Complete Unabridged Works of Shakespeare. It's basically three actors who tell the every Shakespeare play that's ever been written in an hour and a half. And it's amazing. And I love that show so much. I think so. A lot of my shows are like fast paced and silly and they move a lot. I don't like things that sit still. So that's been a huge inspiration. Come from away. Have you heard of that show? It's about. It's actually. It's a musical about 911. I mean, 9 11. And it's the story of the people who lived in gander who took in, you know, 5,000 people because all the airports in America were closed. And it never, it's. Again, it's just. It's seven people on stage and they tell the whole. The story of thousands and thousands of people. And there's no intermission, which I love. I love plays that never stop. And that's like my goal. And so I think maybe that's the shows I've seen that stick with me. That's what inspires me. It's like, I'll see a show and I'll be like, I want to do something like that. And then I'll go home and I'll do it.
[53:19] Christina Donovan: I mean, do you ever think or feel the need to take, like, additional classes on, or do you feel like you have everything you need to do the writing you want?
[53:34] Mary Carolyn Conti: So I probably should take a class. I'm probably very technically a mess, but it seems to work. I had someone tell me one time that my writing avoids a lot of the traps that writers fall in. And I sometimes think it's because I don't know what those traps are. And I'm scared if I find out what they are, I'll start falling into them. I. I started writing, you know, like, I don't know, 10, 15 years ago. And this is going to sound strange, but I've. I've been. I shouldn't tell you my secret, but I'm going to. I've been using Facebook to train myself how to write, which is. I. I know sounds strange, but I've. It's amazing. I'll write a status, and then I'll kind of gauge the. The response, and if it's not a good response, I'll take the post down, I'll rewrite it some other kind of way, and I'll put it back up. And it's actually been a. Because when I first started, I would only do one play a year, so I couldn't really. I didn't have the audience gauge like I do now, so I needed a way to. Okay, is what I'm writing funny or is it not funny? And so I started using Facebook, and it's. I know it sounds weird, but it's been amazing to. That Facebook has been able to help me. Now you guys know. And so now you're going to be, like, studying all my posts. But it's been amazing to see how Facebook has helped me hone my writing skills.
[54:55] Tara Bansal: That's incredible. I mean, to me, like, in marketing, there's market research, and, like, they talk about AB testing, and basically you came up with your own system to like and utilize what you had. And I think that's really neat.
[55:17] Christina Donovan: Yeah, that actually makes me feel better about your Facebook posts, because I read them and I'm like, wow, like, where does she come up with this stuff? And it makes me feel better that, like, it's not just something like you're throwing, because they are incredible.
[55:32] Mary Carolyn Conti: They are careful, they are carefully crafted, and sometimes you might be seeing the third draft of it. So.
[55:37] Tara Bansal: Yeah, because I don't go on Facebook all the time, so I may only, you know.
[55:42] Christina Donovan: Right. Me too. Like, I might just see the last to edit because they are incredible. I think that all the time, like, wow. Like, how does she just do this, like, so quickly? And just. It's always so good.
[55:55] Tara Bansal: But that's really interesting.
[55:56] Christina Donovan: It is really interesting. Well, thank you for sharing that.
[56:00] Mary Carolyn Conti: Use what you have. Use what you have. Right? Like, use what's around you.
[56:04] Christina Donovan: Yeah. Necessity is the mother of invention.
[56:06] Mary Carolyn Conti: Yes.
[56:09] Tara Bansal: Is there a question we didn't ask that you wish we had?
[56:14] Mary Carolyn Conti: I don't think so. I think I feel like. I feel like I cheated because I listened to enough podcasts that I kind of built in the answers I wanted to get out there already.
[56:25] Tara Bansal: But I know to me, that's not cheating. Like, I don't know. When I listen to some podcasts, I'm like, have these people not listened to the podcast ever? Don't they know what's coming up? So to me, it's a compliment and thank you for listening. But I just think then. And that also shows who you are. Like, you like doing research. So you're prepared.
[56:46] Christina Donovan: You're always prepared.
[56:48] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[56:49] Christina Donovan: That's impressive. That's the theater not cheating.
[56:53] Mary Carolyn Conti: Okay, good.
[56:54] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[56:54] Mary Carolyn Conti: Let's look at it. I was preparing.
[56:57] Tara Bansal: Yes. On your writing, what are the next steps that you're going to take to help get your work out there?
[57:05] Mary Carolyn Conti: So I'm kind of like. And Tim and I talked about this and that's one of the reasons I quit working was so that I could focus. Because like I said, I have. I have a big, huge writing project in my head that I'm not ready to say what it is, but I will, I promise. But it's. It's going to take me probably a year or longer to write all of it. And so I think the first step is to write it all down, to get it all out. And then I'll go back and edit and then I'll have to find willing actors to come to my house because you can't really know if a play is good until you hear it out loud. So I'll have to get people to be willing to come to my house and read different things. Or I could workshop them, which is a possibility. And then once I get sort of everything edited and fine tuned, then we work on publishing. And I don't have any idea how to do that, but we will figure it out. And Tim is 100% on board and which is always. It's amazing to have support of your partner because trying to do this by myself would not be easy. But I know that he's you know, your brother, he gets things done. So I know when I get to the step of needing his help, he will figure out how to make it happen.
[58:17] Tara Bansal: You guys will figure that out. That's great. I love it. That's very exciting. Just even to hear that, that now you're, you're making the time to focus on it and getting, getting the words out that are in your head.
[58:33] Mary Carolyn Conti: Yes. It's a, it's a job, though. Like, I know I. Terry, I know you write too, and it's like you have to schedule time to sit down and.
[58:42] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[58:43] Mary Carolyn Conti: But like, it's, it's a new, it's a new thing because usually I just wrote when I was inspired. Now I'm like, I have to sit down at the computer from 10 to 1 and even if I just sit there staring at a blank screen, I have to make the time to sit there. And if it comes out, great. If it doesn't, that's not the point. As much as it's. Make yourself sit in that chair for three hours a day.
[59:04] Tara Bansal: Yeah. Or I know some, some writers are. They try to just hit a certain number of words.
[59:12] Mary Carolyn Conti: Oh, yeah.
[59:13] Tara Bansal: Like pace themselves that way of like, I don't know, you know, choose that. And then if it, if you're in the flow and it's done, like you could have, you know, whichever comes first.
[59:24] Mary Carolyn Conti: Right.
[59:25] Tara Bansal: You know, 2,000 words or 1:00.
[59:30] Mary Carolyn Conti: Right? Yeah, whichever one is their first year. Yeah.
[59:33] Tara Bansal: Thank you. Yeah, that's.
[59:37] Christina Donovan: I don't know. I always learn stuff in these. Even people that I thought I knew. Well, you know, it's, it's, it's always so interesting.
[59:46] Tara Bansal: And Mary Carolyn, I admire you so much because of how creative and artistic and different you are than I am. And I love that you're going to share that with the world and that you're excited to do it to me that you know, for this next phase. Yeah.
[01:00:08] Christina Donovan: Yeah.
[01:00:09] Tara Bansal: Well, thank you.
[01:00:10] Christina Donovan: Yeah. Thank you. Mary Carolyn, you can definitely feel your energy for this next phase and it is, it's super exciting.
[01:00:19] Mary Carolyn Conti: Oh, thank you. I think what you guys are doing is awesome and I love it and I'm excited for you guys. And thank you for including me.
[01:00:27] Tara Bansal: Of course.
[01:00:29] Christina Donovan: This is Christina Conti Donovan and my recommendation this week is the novel Same as It Ever Was by Clara Lombardo. This book centers on a middle aged woman reflecting back on her difficult experiences as a new wife and mother as she prepares for her empty nest. It is not an emotionally easy read and I have to admit, I had difficulty identifying with the protagonist for much of the novel, so much so in the beginning that I almost stopped reading it. I am glad I stayed with it though. The dramas and complications of her life with the young husband and young children contrast well with those of a middle aged husband, college bound daughter, and soon to be married son. I found the writing insightful and poignant without being sentimental. I hope you will check it out again. Our recommendation this week Same as It Ever Was by Claire Lombardo for show notes and other information about our podcast, please Visit our website messymiddlescence.com if you enjoyed listening, please help spread the word about our podcast by sending a link to a family member or friend. And don't forget to leave a positive rating or review for us. As always, we hope you will return for more.
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Shows Mary Carolyn mentioned:
“Come from Away” The Hit Musical Based on The Remarkable True Story
Podcast: “A Slight Change of Plans with Maya Shankar” can be found on Apple and Spotify.
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Book:
Same as It Ever Was by Claire Lombardo.
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Mary Carolyn “MC” Conti graduated from Northside School of Performing Arts in Atlanta and received her BA in Theatre Arts from Fordham University in New York City. She worked in numerous Broadway and off-Broadway houses in New York and had the amazing opportunity to study under Tony Award Winning Director Michael Mayer. Before having kids, she worked all over the Atlanta theatre scene and received 2 MAT Nominations for Best Director of a Musical. Once her 3 children showed up, her attention turned towards children’s theater and there she discovered a love of passing theatre on to the next generation. When not writing, directing or teaching, she can be found ON the stage. Some of her favorite roles include Mary Poppins in “Mary Poppins”, Belle in “Beauty and the Beast”, Annie Oakley in “Annie Get Your Gun”, Alice in “You Can’t Take it With You, and Lucy in “You’re a Good Man, Charlie Brown”. She currently resides in Metro Atlanta with her husband, Tim, and children Carrie (19), Liz (17) and Ben (13).