23. Being Able to Say Yes with Anne Conti
“….a lot of it is what you make it and being open to making the changes [needed} to making it better”
Last season we interviewed our sister-in-law, Anne Mielke Conti, in the episode “Taking the Leap” about her momentous life change of leaving her corporate job to be at home. We promised at the end of that episode to touch base with Anne again in the future to see where her “leap” had taken her. Today, we fulfill that promise by talking with Anne about the good, the bad, and much in between, that has occurred for her and her family in the last 16 months.
In “Being Able to Say Yes”, Anne recognizes how fortunate she is to have the opportunity and choice to make this change. As the title of this episode implies, this has been a positive change for her and her family and Anne emphasizes throughout our interview, “this is what is right for right now”. Anne imparts wisdom and insight into both the practicalities of everyday life as well as adjusting to a significant change.
In this episode we discuss the following with Anne:
The unique challenges of her home/family as her workplace – highlighting the similarities and differences between her corporate role and her role at home;
The “constant juggle” of parenting and work schedules which for many families is a continual struggle. Anne credits the lessening of this “juggle” and the ability to always say yes as the most important factor in her decreased stress levels;
The challenges of having no defined schedule and/or commitments but also being protective of this unscheduled time which allows Anne to take advantage of opportunities as they happen;
The joys of a free-time bucket list and the misery of meal planning
The need to find “me” time and setting boundaries when the tasks and days at home are seemingly endless;
The joys and struggles of changing seasons
The importance of doing your best to change the things you can when it comes to less-than-ideal tasks or the environment you might find yourself in;
The significance of using your core values to stay intentional with your time and choices.
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[00:22] Tara Bansal: Hi, this is Tara Conti Bansal, and I want to welcome you to season two of our podcast, Messy Middlescence. My sister, Christina Conti Donovan and I are in the thick of midlife and trying to help ourselves and others to learn about and hopefully thrive in this unique phase of life. Like adolescence, middle essence is a time of tremendous change, touching almost every aspects of our lives. There are the physical and hormonal changes, but also many of the rhythms, relationships, and frameworks that have dominated our lives for decades all start to shift in various ways. Tina and I are figuring this out as we go, and we hope you will join us as we dive into and discuss topics and ideas that will help all of us grow and understand this special midlife phase and how to live it better, more meaningfully and joyfully, one day at a time.
Hello. This is Tara Conti Bansal. I am here with Christina Conti Donovan and Anne Mielke Conti, our sister in law. We are super excited to have her back. She was episode three for us in the very first season. We asked Anne to join us in season one because she had just recently left her full time job. And that was exactly a big change that I think is common in midlife or middle essence. And we think so highly of Anne, who she is and how she does things that we wanted to talk with her. And at the end of that episode, we said, we would love to check back in with you in a year or so. So I think when we talked to you, Anne, you had only been out, like, maybe a month or two. It was during the summer, which is its own craziness. And now, hopefully, you feel settled back into the second school year of being without working full time outside the home. I don't know what phrase to use. I mean, you had a super high powered job that you left and now are doing things. How are you? And how is it this school year?
[02:58] Anne Conti: Yeah, thanks, Tarrie. It's different. You know, I think that's. I'll never say something is probably the better than the other, but I think it might be better for me right now. And I think that's really, you know, if you look at it, it fits what we need as a family. And, like, what works for me now. And I'm grateful to have the opportunity to stop working, to do those things. So it's been really great to have the time to be with my kids. And honestly, half of it is just dealing with life. Right. I mean, when you stay at home as a mom, when your kids are a little older, it's not about watching little kids run around the house and, you know, take care of little ones. Um, but it's about caring for the life and the environment, um, in which we all have. Right? So it's the groceries, it's the food, it's the house. It's preparing for their activities. It's doing all the registrations. There's so much always to do, and to have the time to get that done without it being like a second job is, is really something I'm grateful for.
[04:27] Tara Bansal: What would you say has changed from when you first left till now? Would you say you've settled into kind of this new routine or.
[04:38] Anne Conti: There's so much that has changed, and I think I'm still changing and trying to master the routine.
[04:47] Tara Bansal: Which the routine keeps changing. Right. With each season.
[04:51] Anne Conti: So summer is so different than school. School. And, you know, I think I point right before a summer and my first summer off, you know, when you first think I'm going to stay at home, you start to, like, get these idealized visions. And I think I talked about it last time of, like, oh, I'm suddenly going to, like, have all this time to work out and cook meals, and I get our house in order, and, like, suddenly everything's going to change. And then summer hit, and I realized it didn't have that time. The kids are very busy in the summer, and I got to do stuff with them. And so coming into my second summer this year, I realized that before summer started, right. I really was like, nope, this is what I'm doing. I'm with the kids. I'm doing fun stuff, you know, and we're really enjoying summer. And so knowing that and not being disappointed that I couldn't do some of those things was a better way to go into this summer. And then, you know, being my second school year, I knew by the end of last school year, I was sensing some feelings of, like, boredom. I think I, you know, especially in the dull winter and seeing some of that repetitiveness, I I think I would classify some of what I felt in that second or in that first school year time as possible. You know, like boredom. Like, am I bored? What am I going to do today? I don't know. Nothing. Like, I think that it was boredom. And so that's probably my challenge this school year, is deciding why was I feeling that, and what would I change to feel differently or what doesn't create that sense of dissatisfaction or boredom or something along those lines. So I think there's a lot of nuance to that. You know, I think one of the things I've been able to reflect on as someone staying at home is versus a career. And being in a corporate world is, there's actually, like, a never ending list of possible things you could do when you stay at home, where I feel like that is actually more finite. When you're in a job, you can actually, and I realized I was in a corporate role and a leadership role, but, you know, you could really feel like, I'm done. I'm done for the day. Like, I did the tasks that I wanted to do. People think I did a good job. I'm getting good feedback. I'm doing the right amount of pace, right? Like, I am at the right pace. I'm getting the things done I should get done. And you feel like there's some end or accomplishment where you can feel satisfied in comparison. I think when you are staying at home and not having that, I mean, the Internet feeds you with these possibilities. So you get on Instagram and you're thinking, I should be meat prepping. I should be juicing, apparently. I should be making homemade cleaners. Maybe I should be, you know, deep cleaning my bathroom. There's a bunch of people on Instagram doing that, you know, so you start to, like, spiral into that never ending list of what you could be doing, because no one's there to tell you, you don't need to do that. Like, you're doing a good job. No one's there to say, you, you're promoted. You did a really good job. You get, you know, fives on your review, and you just start spiraling. So I think that's something I can recognize and have awareness to. And I've tried to look at maybe this school year as more like, what should I try to accomplish per week? And can I. When can I say I'm doing a good job if I do these certain things? Like, can I be like, okay, yeah, I did what I was supposed to do. Crush it, give myself a little pat on the back because my kids aren't doing that.
[09:32] Tara Bansal: Yeah, you don't get that feedback. And to me, what I'm hearing is the corporate world has very specific goals that you're given and that you're trying to achieve. And I love how you said it at home, there's just this never ending list. I mean, even without the help of instagram, I feel like there's always more.
[09:58] Anne Conti: There is the difference, too, that my role now is not time bound. And I could, you know, and not that I created a time bound to my previous jobs and corporate roles where people have actual hours, but you can always work longer. You can do those things. But I was very good about creating boundaries where staying at home, there is no boundary. I could be continuing to do any of those tasks that I did while the kids were at school, after school, or at night or some other time. So there's just that flow that you're kind of just always going and so kind of grappling with that. And what does that mean? I don't know if I have, like, an answer for it yet.
[10:53] Christina Donovan: I mean, would you say your stress level has changed?
[10:57] Anne Conti: Absolutely. You know, I think that's the biggest improvement, is I'm nothing stressed compared to what I was when I was working. So I used to joke, I think it was like, you can't be busy at work and, like, have a sick kid at the same time or, like, busy at work, busy at home, and something else. Like, there's too many layers that it just would be like an explosion. And so now being able to just, you know, pace myself with all the things that do need to happen for the kids and really being able to say yes, I think, is probably the most freeing part. Right? Like, yes, I could run over to school if you need something, or, yes, you're homesick, like, I can take care of you, or, yes, I can run that carpool, because I'm not racing home from work. Really, being able to be available is the biggest stress relief, I think, when a kid was sick or we needed to get somebody to an appointment or something else, that created a lot of stress in our house between Tom and I trying to battle well, whose job is less important today? Um, when you're trying to get something else done and just being able to be free is really. I think, um, the biggest, like, lift, mental load. Lift, you know, gone. That is really helpful.
[12:42] Christina Donovan: I mean, would you say, I know Tom's had some changes in his job, but particularly last year. Do you think it helped I. Tom's stress level?
[12:54] Anne Conti: I think so, because I could. There was a lot less pressure on our weekend, too. I think that relieving that pressure on the weekend to have fun and get ready for the week, you know, and to relieve those pieces, lets you enjoy your weekend and actually, like, unwind and relax. So that's a big thing. You know, I wait till Monday to do a lot of the things, and Monday, you know, I get everything back going again in the house. So I think that that helps. I also think, you know, I was just able to do a lot of things right like, get the things done. He didn't need to do those elements that I could take on the. And, I mean, I would have to ask him, but, you know, I think the house level stuff as far as, like, the kids in the home, certainly I was able to get things done and take care of a lot of elements that we would have shared otherwise. And we still do share a lot of things. So it's not. He hasn't gotten a free pass yet. It's fair.
[14:11] Tara Bansal: But it's also, to me, like you were saying, removing that stress of the figuring it out of just like, okay, we both have a meeting. We have a sick child. How are we going to handle this? Or we need to take someone to the doctors who can be available. Like, I don't know, maybe that's just where I am right now, that I feel like I complain about it too much, but it's just the juggling of all the different schedules and feeling like I need to keep track and.
[14:53] Anne Conti: Yeah, enough of that in the post, kids getting home from school part of the day, you know, to get them to all their practices and all of those things that, to relieve it where I can has been really freeing. You know, we got a puppy this spring, and the fact that I could, you know, guilt free just take care of the puppy and spend the time with the puppy. And I know that's not a kid, but to us it is. Like, I could spend that time, and it wasn't, like, something that needed to be in the shuffle.
[15:29] Tara Bansal: Right?
[15:30] Anne Conti: Like, I think that shuffle is really removed, and I can really do those things. You know, I got to go drive to see a friend yesterday that lives far away from me, you know, and we got to have lunch. And that's not something I would have had to really think about it. I was working. Like, how could I plan a work schedule around this where I could just say yes and we could go and meet up? And that was really, you know, something that was enjoyable. So I do think that just having that freedom is really a critical element. You know, one part that I've realized, though, as a lot of people ask me, oh, are you gonna, you know, go back to work? Are you gonna do part time? Are you gonna do any consulting or volunteering, you know, things along those lines? And I actually have a bit of a fear of giving up that complete freedom because I watch friends that have, you know, even small part time jobs feel like they created that juggle again. Oh, I can't, you know, my kids off school today, but I have to go do this, you know, job, even if it's an hour, 2 hours, 3 hours. And I'm not sure I want to give up that because it's probably one of the best parts, is, like, not having a schedule, but it feels a little bit limiting as well. You know, I think that that's an interesting conundrum to think, you know, how do you start introducing anything back into a wide open schedule?
[17:17] Tara Bansal: It doesn't sound like you're in any rush to do that.
[17:21] Anne Conti: No, I'm not. I think that, you know, it's part of that concept. Like I was saying, you know, was I bored last school year, and what do I do about that, right? So, you know, I think. I think the job is the answer. Like, that's not, you know, I'm grateful that I don't need to get a job, but I do think, you know, sending Tonga song to see a friend every week is a big part. And see friends, like, we go on walks, we do some other stuff, but to, like, really, you know, like, connect with other people, maybe I don't see as much, you know, go to a lunch or do something like that. I think that that's an important element. I think having, like, daily things that I'm trying to accomplish, you know, now Monday's laundry day. Tuesday is grocery shopping day. You know, like, I'm trying to feel like these are the things I'm trying to accomplish and spread things out. And then, you know, honestly giving myself a little bit of grace to, like, relax during the day and read a book and enjoy some downtime, you know, I didn't really think about this until my friend said it at lunch yesterday, which is, our weekends are so busy with sports, our weeknights are so busy with kid activities that when you think about what weekends used to look like, you know, when kids were little or before you had kids, that was your, like, real, like, take a nap, watch a tv show, do all these relaxing things. And, like, that is what you use as a recharge. And my friend was, like, pointing out that she started to realize she needs to take that recharge on her own during the week because she does not get that, you know, in those other spaces. And so that actually was, you know, really an interesting way to frame it for me because sometimes I'm like, oh, I feel guilty just sitting here reading my book, but I realize I don't get to do that in the spaces that other people would think is normal.
[19:42] Tara Bansal: Or that you used to be able to do that, right? Like, and, yeah, yeah.
[19:47] Anne Conti: And so to realize, okay, actually, like, unwinding during the day and taking some time to sit outside or go for a walk or do these other things is something that I should really think about because I don't get that time when the kids are. And so that's something I feel like I'm trying to do more of this year. So, you know, having my coffee while reading a book and, you know, maybe Friday afternoons, I just do something that's enjoyable to me. And I think those are some of the things I've thought about as far as that boredom. What am I doing today factor to really change that or to think differently?
[20:37] Tara Bansal: Also to not feel guilty about it. I don't know if that's part of it for you or not, but.
[20:47] Anne Conti: I think it goes back to that balance of the never ending list. And the guilt piece of it is really, well, why do I feel guilty at work? I actually wouldn't feel guilty because I could fully rationalize if I took a break or left early or something, because I could be like, no, I did what I know I need to do, and I am doing a good job. You know, my team is achieving. We're doing what we need to be doing. You know, at home, it's. It's pretty hard to get to that point as, like, a high achieving person because, no, like, all my closets aren't organized and my house isn't deep cleaned, and I don't have, you know, healthy snacks that I made from scratch for the kids. So, like, you know, I'm not done right, or whatever that could be. But I think battling that list and trying to create my own list, in addition to then not feeling guilty because I'm going to be a better person. If I take some downtime and relax, I'll be more ready to be friendly.
[21:59] Tara Bansal: To my children and also to me, it's like, you want to enjoy your life. I'd love any advice from you, Tina Ann, on how to manage that home list where you do feel like, okay, I can take a break, or I did accomplish what needed to be accomplished. I think you're pointing to a common struggle, Tina. Do you agree? Yeah.
[22:33] Christina Donovan: I don't know. It is hard, I think. I remember when my kids were little, you know, I had this thing where I would never put the tv on during the day. Like, it was like a rule for myself because this idea that, like, this is my job and I shouldn't be watching tv during my job. You know what I mean? Like, I need to stay engaged with my kids. And stay active. And I need to be doing something this entire time, and people put it on themselves, or mothers put that on themselves, that, yeah, there's this always higher, you know, bar that you're, you know, you feel like you. You have to get things done. You need to be working even though you're, you know, at home. And I don't know why. I don't know. I guess I'd be curious if you never worked outside the home, if you still have that. I don't know if it's just been built into us culturally or. I don't know. It is kind of a strange thing, though, that you feel like you can't relax, that you need to be constantly working.
[23:38] Anne Conti: Do you think talking to Tom about it is really helpful? Because he's my only feedback source, but coworker, I guess, co parent and talking about, well, what's. I think we've talked about what's most important to us, you know, like, what. What do we value the most, you know? And we value, like, one of the things we value is what we eat. And so we talk about how, like, well, it would really be, you know, valuable if we had a good breakfast option that we made or that, you know, we have a good meal plan every week, and that's figured out. And we make home cooked meals, you know, every night. And so we certainly err on the side of more cooking than I think a lot of families do. But that's what's important to us, and we can choose that, you know, some dust is. Is okay, right? Like, that side is not as important to us. And so I think I like talking about priorities, of what we value the most has crystallized, like, what feels like accomplishment a bit more, but it doesn't fix it, you know, and those things are tedious, I think, you know, something I've talked to other moms about is not that work was always fun, but, like, some of them kind of Washington.
[25:16] Tara Bansal: Got to do some fun things, you know, occasionally, right.
[25:20] Christina Donovan: People, I think, is the other. I mean, even I think when you make an effort, it is really isolating to be home. I mean, it just is. And, you know, you can make plans to walk and bike or have lunch, but in the end, I mean, you are pretty much doing the main bulk of your work, either with your children or by yourself. It's just the way it is by its nature.
[25:47] Anne Conti: And I feel like I also rarely leave home, you know? And I think that is something that is an interesting thing that has to do with the availability of online shopping and Amazon, getting things here faster and cheaper than me running to the store for a lot of things. I am by myself and I am at home like always. So those two factors are things to continue to think about. Like, is there a different way to do that or to make some of those chores, like, more fun? So I've tried to think about that, what makes it more enjoyable. And so I'm listening to an audiobook almost all day, every day when I'm walking and when I'm cleaning or doing laundry. And then I love putting on the tv. I started, you know, you know, when I. It's like now I enjoy doing laundry because I watch tv while I fold everything and get everything set up. And so that's actually like a treat for me, that I get to sit and, like, I'll watch tv and fold all the clothes. And so that's made it more enjoyable. And so then I took on. So that made laundry not bad. And then I thought about, okay, well, you know, food planning, not my favorite. It's getting draining. I can't believe somebody expects me to come up with and cook meals for all of these people every day. Like, that seems slightly unreasonable, but.
[27:15] Tara Bansal: And never ending.
[27:17] Anne Conti: What?
[27:18] Tara Bansal: And never ending.
[27:20] Anne Conti: Like, you can never finish. So we decided we printed out, like, a calendar of a month. And I'm having people fill in days, you know, with what we're going to have for dinner. And we're trying to plan it out so that it's not that, like, double burden of what are we going to have and then, you know, the shopping for it. So trying to find ways to engage the family or, like, do something more enjoyable while I do a less fun task. But, I mean, nobody talks about how, like, some of these tasks are not fun. Like, it's not fun, too. Like, I don't enjoy cleaning bathrooms or grocery shopping or some of these things necessarily. So, like, finding a way to make them more enjoyable and feel a little bit of success, like, brings it back a little bit more towards the corporate world of, like, okay, I made not fun tasks more bearable there. Like, how can I do it here?
[28:23] Christina Donovan: Yeah, it's true. I do think audio books and podcasts, that's become a huge thing for me.
[28:30] Tara Bansal: Especially.
[28:30] Christina Donovan: I do a lot of cleaning. I do a lot of yard work. And to have something to listen to and to kind of keep you occupied is a big deal. I definitely take advantage of that, too. And I do put the tv on now. This is when my kids were like, you know, little, little was when I was like, no tv, because I could just see myself just, like, putting the kids on the floor and just, like, I don't know, watching endless hours of television. And some of that's just my personal weakness, the slippery slope of, like, once it's all.
[29:06] Tara Bansal: I don't know.
[29:06] Christina Donovan: But, yeah, no, I mean, I think there are ways to make. But it is true a lot. And as Terry said, I mean, a lot of these jobs, they just. You finish it, but you're going to have to do it again tomorrow. Like, it's. Or, like, even just with cleaning, you know, within three days, like, you're. You know, it's this. Even. Even when you finish something, you know you're going to be doing it again very shortly. And it's. Yeah. Mentally kind of exhausting.
[29:33] Tara Bansal: I mean, for meal planning, my family doesn't like it, but every week, everybody has to choose one meal. And then, just like you said, Anne, I hated deciding what we had to have. And so now at least I rationalize it. At least you're going to have one meal you want this week. And one of Nimitz complaints was, we had the same things over and over. And part of that was just my brain always went to the same things that either I liked or were easy. And I have to say, it's almost to the extreme, because now my boys are choosing stuff that is not necessarily easy to make. So. But we're trying new things.
[30:23] Anne Conti: I was like, will, homemade sushi is not a weeknight dinner. I'm sorry, we're gonna have to move that one.
[30:32] Tara Bansal: It's funny because Alex is super into sushi right now, too.
[30:36] Anne Conti: So, yeah, we had to talk about the difference between a weeknight dinner and a weekend project.
[30:44] Tara Bansal: But even that, I feel like on the weekends, a lot of times, I'm so tired. I just want something easy on the weekend night, too, because we've been going to hockey games and flag football and just want to relax a little.
[31:02] Anne Conti: But, yeah, no, I think the other thing about the audiobooks is detriment. It turns off my brain from, like, that constant list mongering, right? Like, of telling myself all these things I should do or not do or, like, just the activity in my brain, and it lets it peace out and just listen to something and enjoy. And I think that's the done a coping mechanism that has been working pretty effectively.
[31:35] Tara Bansal: What? Just curious, what shows are you watching when you fold laundry right now?
[31:40] Anne Conti: Oh, I. Well, I really like Emily in Paris. And so I was watching that, but that finished quickly. I started watching the resident, which is like an older medical show, kind of like a grey's anatomy that has many seasons. And so I'm like, well, this will last me quite a while on Netflix. And so it's been. It's been enjoyable. Keeps my mind off things, keeps it interesting. So I also think going to lunch with friends is such a fun break to feel, like, adult conversation that is really, I think, almost takes us going all the way to lunch and having, like, a nice lunch to break out of just talking about our kids and I, what we're doing that day. And I think that's what we do when we go on walks or something short. It was just more like tactical discussions where when we really leave and we go to a lunch, it feels we actually get dressed. We, like, you know, get out of our yoga pants and actually, like, do our hair and those types of things. And so I think that's been an important infiltration to the week as well, is, like, actually going and doing that, which is something that you get more in the corporate world that I didn't find. I found, you know, did much of since I quit.
[33:06] Tara Bansal: How often are you able to do that? And do you have a goal?
[33:10] Anne Conti: Like, I think my goal, I would like to probably go once a week. I think that's a really good goal. I think I'm probably at every other week right now, and I think it's important enough to my wellbeing and continuing to, like, keep connections, you know, to really prioritize that.
[33:34] Tara Bansal: How many of your friends are available? Like, I mean, how many of your friends are working outside the home and how many are either part time or full time at home?
[33:48] Anne Conti: Yeah, an interesting piece of it. Two of my very close girlfriends that live right by me both stay at home or have small part time work. So I almost joined their, like, circle as I could to be able to do more things with them and go on walks and do other things. And so I feel really fortunate that I do have friends that stay at home because we can connect during the daytime hours on a pretty regular schedule or with ease. The rest of friends connect with or. A lot of them really are working full time, so they're, you know, looking at their schedules and trying to find something, and it makes it a lot harder to connect and to get to lunch or do something like that. So I feel very lucky that I have a few friends here that are in a similar situation to me, that we can more easily connect and do things in a similar space.
[34:52] Tara Bansal: And those that work, you go meet them when they can yeah, exactly.
[34:57] Anne Conti: Yeah. Yeah. A little harder.
[35:00] Tara Bansal: What are you looking forward to right now?
[35:04] Anne Conti: What am I looking forward to? Oh, I mean, there's so many, like, levels to that question. Right. The biggest thing I still, like, enjoy the most and look forward to the most is always travel and planning the trips and taking the time to really work on that for the family and, and looking ahead and getting excited for vacations. I think it's just something that we really enjoy as a family. But, you know, I look forward to every season change, I guess, because I kind of like the change. You know, I like, we're in soccer season right now. We're outside. It's hot. We're doing that stuff, and it's been really fun, but I. That's getting exhausting. And so, like, I'm not going to be mad about that ending. And I think starting hockey season and, you know, Claire is, you know, one of my daughters is starting hockey this season, and, you know, my other daughter is doing more cheer, and so I'm excited to see how that goes. And everyone's on teams this year, and so, you know, I look forward to that shift. And, you know, some seasons I wish were a little shorter because you do get sick of whatever that season is. And I don't mean just sports, but whatever, all the routines that go with it, you know, our soccer routine and our fall routine is really busy. And I look forward to while hockey is busy, it actually has a bit of a slowdown, and I don't know if that's the weather and other things, but, like, there's a bit of a slowdown that happens in winter, and I I will welcome that. And then it's, you know, I look forward to then every shift from there and watching what the kids are doing and how we're all cheering them on and doing all those things as well.
[37:13] Tara Bansal: So I agree.
[37:15] Anne Conti: I love simple things.
[37:17] Tara Bansal: I love having four seasons and what just each season brings its own changes and differences and contrasts. And to me, that is special.
[37:29] Anne Conti: Yeah.
[37:31] Tara Bansal: Just going back a little bit. But I love how intentional you and Tom at least seem about what you value and what you want. I mean, one is just time with them. That's something I remember both you and Tom said in your interviews last season and around food and enjoying meals together. Anything else that jumps out at you, travel for what things you guys value.
[38:08] Anne Conti: You know, I think trying new things or experiencing new things together is probably a big one. And I think that goes with food and travel. It's like a fun one. Right. Because.
[38:22] Tara Bansal: But it can be across different areas, like, yeah.
[38:27] Anne Conti: And I think, you know, it goes to hopefully instilling something in the kids where they feel, like, capable of trying new things, and that that's like a positive. It's not always scary, you know, and I think it shows up in places like Claire trying a new sport, you know, or I think, you know, will is going to try track and field this year, or, you know, he's trying a strings quartet type, you know, group, and you're like, okay, this is going to be like, try new things, like, see what you like, you know, experience things. And I think that's probably one of the things that is really important to us, is just, you know, getting out there and doing different stuff and enjoying it and being brave and enjoying what comes of it. You can like it or not like it, but still fun to try.
[39:32] Tara Bansal: So would you say you were brought up that way to try new things, or is that something you realized later?
[39:41] Anne Conti: I think maybe it's just now. Our culture is a much more intentional culture. I think we've all had enough therapy thoughts that we know why we're doing things. I certainly did try a lot of things as a kid. I was afforded a lot of opportunities to travel and to meet lots of different people and do different things. Yeah, I definitely think it's probably something, whether it was intentional or not, that I was. I was brought up doing.
[40:20] Tara Bansal: Do you guys have a family motto or, like, mission statement or anything like that?
[40:27] Anne Conti: No, we don't. You're better at that than we are.
[40:32] Christina Donovan: Yeah. Do you, Terry? Do you guys have that?
[40:35] Tara Bansal: No, we don't. But, I mean, there's a book, like secrets of a happy family, and they want you to come up with, and it sounds like you have, like, what are your top values? And to have that displayed somewhere. I mean, we had the one sign that I like, we didn't come up with it, but in our kitchen, and Nimita and I did this exercise of coming up with r as a couple. Our top. I think they tried to get you down to two values, and that was really hard because my top two values were not the same as Nimitz top two values, and to come together as a couple on what we wanted was really difficult. I felt like, for nimit and I, even what we said our top values were, I felt like we're not doing a very good job of instilling that in our children, if you want me to kind of call ourselves out on it, but, like one of them, I'm trying to think if this was in the top two, but it was like, grit and resilience. And I'm like, are we really doing that when it's raining? Oh, we'll drive you to school, you know, or these little things that, I mean, and I think part of it's being one of seven, and I see, like, other families, like, it doesn't matter what the weather is. We had to get ourselves to school, right? Like, my mom had too many other people that she had to take care of, so it was our job. And I don't know, it's a little bit of thinking, you know, like, that times have changed, but also to think about what values you want your children to have.
[42:40] Anne Conti: I think, too, I'm not sure culture is built around instilling grit and resilience anymore. You know, I think that that has limited, you know, with everyone being a lot more equality than trying hard to do. Do better. Yeah, I think, too.
[43:01] Christina Donovan: You never know. I don't know. It's hard. You don't know what lessons and values are actually going to stick with your kids. I mean, it's just you try your best and hope for the best, but there's a lot that you can't control, and there's a lot that has to do with just the way they are, the way you are as a person. I don't know. I remember just Terry talking about your example. My roommate in college was one of two children, and we would be at college, and I don't know, like, her mom was always doing stuff for her. You know, she would say to me, like, I feel guilty asking my mother to do this, but I know she will. And she's like, I look at you and, like, you would never ask your mom to do that. And I'm like, well, yeah, because she can't do it. Like, you know, she has too many other things and. But Susan is, like, the most. Take charge, get it done.
[44:02] Tara Bansal: Like, I mean, like, she didn't take it for her. Yeah.
[44:06] Christina Donovan: It didn't necessarily affect her in terms of, you know, her ability to execute things and to do things. It was just like her mother was helping her, and I think she recognized that I have a mother who can help me. I'm going to take advantage of it. You know what I mean? I don't know. It's a tricky thing, I guess, is what I'm saying.
[44:26] Tara Bansal: Yeah, I think that is a good point. Susan is so grounded and so hardworking, and yet she. I guess. I think it's a little different if you take it for granted. And or expect it. But Susan, I think, had the self awareness of, I'm lucky to have this, and even probably her mom enjoyed it at some level. But that is. And to your point, Tina, we can try to teach a lesson. And the way it goes into anyone's head, it may or may not be the way we meant it to be. And what people remember or don't remember, you never know.
[45:19] Anne Conti: Yeah, I think that's very true.
[45:23] Tara Bansal: Yeah, well, I think we got a.
[45:25] Christina Donovan: Little bit sidetracked on that, and I apologize if that was me, but, no.
[45:30] Tara Bansal: I think it's important. I mean, to me, that's what I want these conversations to be. And I think a little. I mean, I think I was the one that sidetracked. But around midlife is this awareness, like, you have more ability to, like with your experience and look at things. And part of what jumps out at me is, even though it may sound like it's been a while for you, it really hasn't been that long, and you're still figuring it out. You're still settling in, and each season brings its own figuring it out, which is both good and bad. I don't know.
[46:24] Christina Donovan: Was there one thing, Anne, when you stopped working a project where you were like, this is what I'm gonna do, that you actually did get done? And, like. Like, you look back, and you're like, oh, I'm so happy I did that, you know?
[46:39] Anne Conti: You know, next one. And I remember telling you guys, is, like, move more, right? Like, be more active. And I definitely achieved that, you know, like, I think going on so many more walks and actually getting outside, I think, is just, like, so helpful and healthy for us. So that was a simple one, and I'm glad I, like, achieved it. Like, am I, like, suddenly super fit? No, but I am feeling better because I'm getting up and I'm moving, and I'm not sitting in a chair all day, you know? And I think the dog has helped, right? Like, we go on walks every day, and getting some of that routine gonna.
[47:24] Tara Bansal: Be like, Daisy's [Anne’s dog] in her lap right now, and that's, like, giving her a look. So cute.
[47:33] Anne Conti: So that was an achievement. When I first quit, I had some, like, health projects that I really wanted to do, and I did do them. I can't remember what they were, but they were those things that I was like, I'm gonna do it, and I did it, and I, you know, I think those come and go, but I certainly feel like getting more active, being more, you know, healthy as far as getting outside and getting movement in the day has been a big one. And signing up to go on all the field trips that I can go on, stuff like that, you know, like, really getting to do things with the kids. I think that's certainly a stage right now. You know, some of them want to hang out with me more than others. Right. So, like, taking the opportunities when they're available and when the kids want to do something with you, like, I'm gonna do it right. So, like, I think that that's certainly another piece of it is embracing that as well, because already, you know, at times, each of them are like, no, find a friend. I'm gonna do something else. So I certainly think those are a couple of things that I feel I was, like, pretty successful with.
[49:05] Tara Bansal: So it's great. I know for me, and our kids are the exact same age as your two oldest of mine is. I see them wanting to spend more time with their friends, and that's going to keep increasing. And so we do prioritize time together. And I think I have this appreciation of that because I see a lot of my friends and family who have older kids, how quickly that is and will change, you know, that that's coming.
[49:44] Anne Conti: And, you know, I also have seen families that kind of force that, too. Right? Like, well, every Friday night you can't do anything with your friends. Like, we're going to do a family movie night or whatever, and I haven't wanted to do something like that because I never want it to feel forced and I want people to take opportunities that they. And so balancing, you know, feeling like each kid is getting their friend time and us time and looking at, you know, how that's really balancing out and that when we do have some time together that we're doing something that is at least enjoyable because that's been hard lately because it is. Our time together is where I. Between everything else and, you know, is it enjoyable between these two soccer games to do something? Not really. So, you know, how do you find and appreciate, oh, look, we all have a free, you know, Sunday night together and do something that actually is enjoyable. And really, I think, trying to put the emphasis on those pieces and nothing, you know, equal to everything else.
[50:59] Tara Bansal: So what, I mean, like, you want some structure, but not have it be forced and take advantage of opportunities so it feels more natural and in the flow, but keeping in mind the different balances you're trying to.
[51:14] Anne Conti: Yeah, you know, I think the other day that I can't come up with activities that my kids want to do that are like, low, low effort activities. You know, when kids were little, you could be like, the park. And they'd be like, yes, that sounds great. And now you have to come up with something a lot more interesting and, you know, continuing to find those things or what is that list? You know, we made a bucket list at the beginning of summer and didn't follow it or weren't really paying attention to it, and I realized that. And, you know, by the last two weeks of summer was when we really had a lot of free time. And I was just like, what are we going to do? You know, you're burned out. You're kind of at your, like, we feel like we've done all the things, but we pulled back out that bucket list and actually, like, did a ton of the things. And it really, you know, I think sometimes it goes. It's the same as, like, meal planning. The hard part is sometimes coming up with the ideas, and so, you know, putting in concerted effort on coming up with ideas to then pull out in those times that you don't have the energy to come up with the ideas is probably one of the things that's worked the best. So maybe that's a note to myself that I need to make a free time bucket list for everybody so that we can pull out of that instead of all staring at each other when I tell them to get off the screens.
[52:51] Tara Bansal: Yeah, I like that idea. Laura Vanderkamp, who I follow, she does kind of like a bucket list for each season for her, kind of for herself and for her family. And she's like, we never do it all, but at least we then have ideas. And how you have your antenna out for things to try to do that, you know you would like to do because some have only certain windows that you can do.
[53:20] Anne Conti: Now, I think that's a really good practice because I certainly. There's just times when you don't have the energy to come up with those ideas. And let me tell you, if you ask the kids, what do they want to do? They have zero ideas, as it turns out. So I always think it's fun to try to involve them in, like, well, where do you want to go to dinner? Or, like, what do you want to do? And they always just look at me like I got nothing. And they're like, okay, back to me.
[53:49] Tara Bansal: Well, or you can have a child who always has lots of ideas, and then the other child doesn't say anything, and I feel like they just go along for the ride or all the ideas cost a lot of money. And you're like, yeah, that's not exactly what we're going to do.
[54:08] Anne Conti: The downside, yes. The alternative. Well, that's very true. Or if I do force a lot of brainstorming, they all come up with something different and then they fight over it.
[54:18] Tara Bansal: Yeah, that's the other challenge. I mean, basically, we're at time. Anything else you feel like you would love to share of looking back over the past year, year and a half of lessons learned or things you want to try to do better going forward.
[54:39] Anne Conti: I think, is a question. And then everyone is like, well, do you like being a stay at home mom better or being, you know, or working better? Which one's better? And I think if I've learned anything and it goes back to my career, too, is a lot of it, is what you make it, and being open to making the changes, to making it better. And I think that's something I have to continue to remind myself is like, why do I not like this? Or why do I not like that? And what is in my power to change and how can I make it better? And so that's probably something I need to continue to employ from work. Right. I was really good at making parts of work better for myself, for other people, and, you know, realizing what boundaries were important and how to create an environment that was positive and all of that. And how can I continue to do that for myself at home and be willing to make those changes and be reflective of, like, why I don't like certain things. So I think that's something that is really universal and need to keep working on so that it's going to change, too. What might make me happy this fall might not in spring, or what works now might not work later. But I think that's probably the biggest lesson is, you know, continue to change. Not everything will be how you expect it to be, but keep working through it.
[56:25] Christina Donovan: Yeah, I think that's really great advice.
[56:28] Tara Bansal: And it applies to everything I love.
[56:30] Christina Donovan: Yeah, I know. I mean, you know, you have the power to change things and to control certain things and to do that to.
[56:40] Anne Conti: Make a tv show while you do laundry.
[56:42] Tara Bansal: Yeah. And I also love, like, on the microscopic level of doing laundry and, like, the macroscopic life level of, like, okay, at this point in my life, I want to be home full time with my kids, and that may not be forever, but this is what's right and what I want now. So, yeah, I love that.
[57:06] Anne Conti: That's true.
[57:07] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[57:07] Anne Conti: Yeah.
[57:08] Tara Bansal: Well, thank you so much, Anne, as always. I feel like. Yeah. You have so much.
[57:14] Christina Donovan: Yeah, you. So good advice and so. Yeah, interesting.
[57:19] Anne Conti: Well, and hopefully she hasn't torn up the room. So success.
[57:25] Tara Bansal: Today's recommendation is a two part podcast that I listen to. I hesitated to make this the recommendation for this episode because it is political and I generally stay away from that because I don't like conflict and right now politics are so emotionally charged. But Tina and I talked about it and I decided it was worth putting this out there. The podcast is Brene Brown's most recent two with Doctor Heather Cox Richardson and the title is democracy awakening notes on the state of America. I had never heard of doctor Heather Cox Richardson, but she is famous and Tina knew of her. She's a professor of history at Boston College and has written about the Civil War, reconstruction, and basically American history and is very knowledgeable and well known. What I loved about these two episodes was that I felt like it jumped back and helped explain some of the history and mythology that is behind some of the biggest issues in our country. And I just liked learning what I did during these two episodes. I really do feel like it's worth the time. It is related to the time right now because election Day is coming up soon, but I hope most people give it a try and will learn something like I did when they listened.
[59:18] Christina Donovan: For show notes and other information about our podcast, please visit our website, messymiddlescence.com. if you enjoyed listening, please help spread the word about our podcast by sending a link to a family member or friend. And don't forget to leave a positive rating or review for us. As always, we hope you will return for more.
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Shows Anne mentioned:
Netflix Series, “Emily in Paris”
“The Resident” on Fox or Netflix
Book Tara mentioned:
The Secrets of Happy Families by Bruce Feiler
Post on the exercise Tara referred to on trying to choose her and her husband’s top 2 values for the family:
Money Quotient®’s “What are Best Practices in Value Clarification”
Laura Vanderkam does a Fun List for each season. Here is her list for Fall of 2024
Gretchen Rubin recommends “Pairing” which is what Anne is doing to help herself enjoy some of the more menial tasks
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Podcast:
Brene Brown’s Unlocking Us October 9, 2024 episode with Dr. Heather Cox Richardson on Democracy Awakening: Notes on the State of America, Part 1 of 2
https://brenebrown.com/podcast/democracy-awakening-notes-on-the-state-of-america-part-1-of-2/
Brene Brown’s Unlocking Us episode from October 16, 2024 with Dr. Heather Cox Richardson on Democracy Awakening: Notes on the State of America, Part 2 of 2