4.Maximizing Life with Tom Conti
“ I didn’t get hired to work harder. I got hired because of my background. And so my experience and my expertise is really the value that I bring, not putting in an extra 10 hours a week to get these things done. And so that’s the way that I view things.”
Today's episode of Messy Middlescence is with our youngest brother, Tom Conti. Tom is a gifted athlete, excellent student (majoring in computer science and math), devoted father, husband and friend, as well as super successful in his business endeavors. He is also thoughtful, down-to-earth and fun to be around.
In a previous episode titled “Taking the Leap”, we interviewed Tom’s wife, Anne Mielke Conti, who had recently left her job to spend more time with their kids. We get to hear how Anne’s big leap has affected their lives. Tom as an unusual combination in today’s world – someone who is extremely successful and ambitious in his career but equally successful and ambitious with his family and work-life balance. While there is a great deal of “lip service” paid to work-life balance, Tom is committed to living these values. He and Anne are excellent examples of living intentionally and crafting a life on their own terms.
Highlights from this episode include:
What is Tom and Anne’s primary focus?
Tom’s excellent advice on setting boundaries with work. He tries hard to be a good role model and not do email or calls on the weekend or in the evenings.
How much easier it is to make a desired change, like setting a new boundary when you are starting a new role or at a new company.
Tom is where he had hoped to be in his mid 40s.
How most of his worries about the future are about or for his kids.
How things have been since Anne changed her job – meeting or exceeding expectations
How intentional and thoughtful Tom is around wanting to maximize his life – what do they value and how and where do they want to spend their time? They are very family focused.
Tom wonders if he has overly high expectations from his job. He wants his job to feel fulfilling.
The difference between success and fulfillment for Tom.
His desire for a “reset” like Anne is taking now.
His desire and hopes to set himself up to work differently in 5-10 years with more flexibility and hopefully part time.
Although Tom said he doesn’t think about legacy that much, he does think about being a good role model for his kids and how he hopes they will think about life. He wants to spend time with his children so they “feel the love.”
Tom thinks youth sports are important to learn discipline, responsibility, and the value of hard work.
The highlight of the interview is at the end when Tom answer’s the one question he thought we would ask and we didn’t (although we will start asking this question in the future!) “What would Tom do if he did not have to work?” Tom has a surprising and unique answer that I am glad to now know and would never have guess in a million years.
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[00:22] Christina Donovan: Are you between the ages of 40 and 60? Do you feel the need for change in your life but are not sure why or when or how? Do you feel a pressure of running out of time? Do you spend most of your time doing things that are not important to you anymore? These are all symptoms or characteristics of Middleescence. And this is our podcast, messy Middleescence Do.
[00:50] Christina Donovan: Today we will be talking to our youngest brother, Tom Conti. Tom grew up the youngest of seven siblings, so he was in a household with two older brothers and four older sisters. And I have to say, simply surviving this upbringing is a feat unto itself. Tom, however, didn't just survive. He has excelled in just about everything he has done his whole life. He is a gifted athlete, an excellent student. He majored in computer science and math. He's fiercely devoted to an extremely large extended family and network of friends. He is super successful and valued in his business endeavors. He is also thoughtful, down to earth, and fun to be around. In a previous episode titled Taking the Leap, we interviewed Tom's wife, Anne Milky Conti, who had recently left her job to manage and be at home with their children. We are excited to talk to Tom to see how Anne's big leap has affected their lives. But we are also excited to talk to Tom because we see him as an unusual combination in today's world. Someone who is extremely successful and ambitious in their career, but equally successful and ambitious with his family and work life balance. While there is a great deal of lip service paid to work life balance, tom is committed to living these values. He and Anne are excellent examples or role models of living intentionally and crafting a life on their own terms.
[02:31] Tara Bansal: Welcome, everyone. This is Tara Bansel. I'm here with Christina Donovan and our youngest brother, Tom Conti, for our newest episode of Messy Middle. Essence. Tom, I could try to introduce you, but I think it's best if you just tell us your story. Tell us what you think or what you want people to know about you. And I guess hang on before I say this. Tom is married to Anne Milkey Conti, who we previously interviewed at the beginning of the summer when Anne had fairly recently left her job. But this is focusing on Tom and where he is right now. He is ten years younger than me and twelve years younger than Tina, just to give you an idea. All right, Tom.
[03:31] Tom Conti: Well, now, I don't know if I just say my age, because now they're going to be able to calculate it.
[03:36] Tara Bansal: We give our age, so whether you want to or not, if they listen to another episode.
[03:44] Tom Conti: So I'm Tom Conti, so I currently live in the Madison, Wisconsin area. I've been in Madison for a little over 20 years. I grew up mainly in the Pittsburgh area, until I was twelve. And then I moved down to Atlanta, Georgia, where I did my high school years. And then I went to Lawrence University, which is up in Appleton, Wisconsin. Played hockey and soccer there and moved to Madison right from school. And I've been here since. Spent a lot of my career in the healthcare technology space. Started out as a software developer and have stayed in the product strategy and the technology side of work. Was a part of a startup that was fairly successful. We grew to be about 120 people and then we sold off and am now a part of a new healthcare technology startup where I oversee the product strategy side from a personal side. I met Anne when I was 24, we got married when I was 29. We have three kids, a boy and then two girls. Will is twelve, Claire is ten, she just turned ten. And then Charlote, she is seven. So they're in 6th grade, fourth grade, and then in the second grade. I don't know if there's anything else to add in terms of background or anything else. Is there anything that I should cover?
[05:43] Tara Bansal: What do you like to do.
[05:47] Tom Conti: When.
[05:47] Tara Bansal: You have free time?
[05:49] Tom Conti: We're pretty busy with the kids and we're kind of into the full activity swing with all three kids doing stuff. I'd say in general we like to cook, we like to hang out and we do like to travel. And then outside of that, I think as a family we try to do a fair amount of activities, whether that's whatever the seasonal one should be. So we'll do apple picking or we'll go to pumpkin patches in the fall. Right now in the summer we try to get out on the lake a lot and do boating and kind of swimming and do that kind of stuff. But no severe Hobies, I guess, where that's really all we do. I still play hockey, so I try to play hockey once a week and then I coach Will's hockey team in the winter. And I currently for Charlote, I am her soccer coach as well.
[06:55] Tara Bansal: Our podcast is around middleescence is the term we use. But midlife, what would you say is most important to you right now at this stage of your life?
[07:08] Tom Conti: So I would say I've been fortunate that from a career side I've been successful enough that I'm not overly invested in my career anymore. I'm able to kind of do my career and be successful, but don't have to over dedicate that. And so I feel like that family right now is the main area where I make sure that I spend my time in. So I try to take for granted that my kids are the ages that they are to make sure that I can be home. I try not to travel for work that much. And really while it can be tough to coach or do all the things that we do just know that there is only a certain amount of time where I'll be able to do that and so make sure that I spend time on that.
[08:12] Tara Bansal: What do you feel like? You do your job, you're good at it. What does it mean to have the family be the focus? Is that just setting boundaries with work or is it more?
[08:25] Tom Conti: Yeah, I think it's just setting boundaries and I don't know, I think there's always especially in startups, there's always this there's a culture that tends to pervade that you should be available at any hour and do work at any time. I get probably 60 emails over the weekend from people that are working and sending emails and just really not being concerned that I'm not doing that. And it's an important thing that I've learned that if they or if the company culture sucks that they're not going to value what I'm doing by not doing it on the weekends, then I'm okay with that. I think the other thing that I've burned into my brain, whether it's actually true or not, is I didn't get hired to work harder. I got hired because of my background. And so my experience and my expertise is really the value that I bring, not putting in an extra 10 hours a week to get these things done. And so that's the way that I view things. And it is hard. I mean, I could be spending a lot more time off hours, but I don't have the desire to. And it's not because I don't like it. I don't think it's worth it.
[10:02] Christina Donovan: So you just turned 43 in May, right?
[10:07] Tom Conti: Yeah.
[10:08] Tara Bansal: I'm going to give your age.
[10:12] Christina Donovan: Do you feel like after you turn 40, things changed in terms of your perspective of what you want and what you're looking for? Or has this been an ongoing process as your kids got older?
[10:30] Tom Conti: Um, I think it was probably when the company when the company that I was with in my 30s got bought and I sold and was a part of a much larger company. After the acquisition, I think that was where I realized I really had to make a decision around what I valued and where I wanted to spend my time. If it was when I turned 40, I also will say, and I don't want this to sound a certain way, but I'm very fortunate that I am able to have that I can do this and not feel the pressure to have to cave into the work environment or the work culture or always trying to get to that next level. Because at my first startup I did work, it was if I got a phone call on Saturday at 09:00 in the morning, I answered it and I talked to people at work about it and that was what I did. And I mean, I didn't spend hours and hours on it, but I was always on and so I think when I started this new company, I wanted to not have it be that way and really try to set the boundary. So I don't know if it was when I turned 40 or not. I just think I just decided I didn't want to go through those headaches of balancing work and family to end life and just really try to see if I could hold that boundary.
[12:21] Tara Bansal: I love that you were so intentional with that. I think that's not always that common. I feel like our culture is always more is better. And many people feel this do take that call at nine in the morning all the time and it can be so. And I love Tom, just even I don't know who or how you got there, if it was through a mentor or just you and Anne or all by yourself, but just setting those boundaries and feeling comfortable and confident with it. I hear this confidence of you'll land on your feet and what they hired you for and recognizing that. I think that's a really big deal. That not everybody, even if they have it, they may not go with it.
[13:28] Tom Conti: I don't know if Anne Wood is actually going to listen to this or not, but she definitely helped because she gets very annoyed by it. And so that helps be, you know, why should we? And it's interesting too, because when I did it, it was harder when the kids were a lot younger. So if you have a one year old and you're trying to get your five year old to soccer practice and you're trying to balance all that, it can be a lot, it can be a lot harder to do. And so it I would say that it was it was much easier to do when you start at a new job or you start at a new place to really I actually talk to people in my company to try to help and don't respond to email. Don't do it over the weekend because they feel the pressure. They should. And you're not going to get anything done. It doesn't matter. But anyway.
[14:38] Tara Bansal: And part of my other question was how many people do you have reporting to you? And I think you are an example of that. It sounds like you're telling people set boundaries and what makes sense. So how many people do you have reporting to you or is that your role?
[15:00] Tom Conti: Yeah, no, three.
[15:01] Tara Bansal: Okay.
[15:02] Tom Conti: So the company right now is about 35 people.
[15:06] Tara Bansal: Okay. And then when you were saying Anne got annoyed, was that when before when you would try to be juggling and being on when you're doing correct the family stuff too. Okay.
[15:25] Tom Conti: And to be fair, if I get a phone call over the weekend and it's something that I think is actually an important thing to take, I mean, I'll find a way to take it. So I don't want to say that I'm not going to like. But in general, you know, these things are not that important and you don't have to do them on a Saturday or they can wait until the morning. But I think before she stopped working her job, the company culture they had there was very much daytime hours. Right. So she did not get a lot of emails over the weekend. She got some emails at night and she would have to do some things every now and again at night. But it was very much and I think when you have a partner who's doing that, it makes you be like, why do I want to start up my laptop at 09:00 at night after the kids are in bed and do emails for a salad hour?
[16:32] Tara Bansal: I think it's a point worth taking that at a new job it was easier to you set the precedents, like with a fresh start. Did you communicate hate that from the beginning or it was more just like what you did?
[16:49] Tom Conti: No, I mean, I didn't communicate it.
[16:51] Tara Bansal: I just started doing it. And I do think that's easier than if you've always done it before.
[16:59] Tom Conti: It also helps that changing it also helps that the company rhetoric is such that we want a culture where it's not like this, but then that's what people do. So I feel like I also have an excuse to fall back and we're like the company culture as a leadership team that we're trying to make is not these things. You're not doing a good job. I'm the one who's over here trying to make sure that the rest of the teams don't feel like that they have to work for. So I think it helps if the company tried to set the boundaries and not and aren't always being followed. But anyway, I think that that helped.
[17:46] Tara Bansal: And I also think a startup that culture has its own, like, do whatever it takes work. Because a lot of times the fewer people, the more you have to do different things, I guess is based on my experience too.
[18:04] Tom Conti: Yeah.
[18:09] Tara Bansal: What would you say you want right now? Are there things in your life you would like to change?
[18:25] Tom Conti: Not really. I guess maybe the better way to answer it is what am I trying to work towards? Maybe would be the maybe that the I mean, I I do you know, I'm trying to set myself up for a career where I am maybe I'm not working full time, but I'm able to still contribute to the areas that I spend my time in. So being involved either as an advisor or other roles for healthcare technology companies. And so while I have my full time job, I'm trying to work on that side to try to set that up for five to ten years down the road where I can still do some things but maybe not work full time.
[19:18] Tara Bansal: Freedom and flexibility, right, is what I'm hearing. Yeah.
[19:24] Tom Conti: I think otherwise. I'd love to find a way to balance the kids activities more, but I don't know if there's a way. It's like right now, our schedules. And this is a bad month, too, because we've got hockey and soccer are currently in kind of overlapping mode, and Charlote's doing soccer along with cheer. And so each kid is kind of doing two activities right now, and so there's just a lot of every weeknight. But that's probably what everybody says. So there is some way to balance that out. Or maybe an easy answer would be to have more carpools.
[20:05] Tara Bansal: I agree. Part of it is having three kids, there's only two of you. And especially during this overlap, I know that's challenging because it is six activities you're doing all at the same time.
[20:23] Christina Donovan: It sounds like Tom, like you have I don't know if it's a five or a ten year plan in your head. Do you consider you and Anne long term planners? Is that something you both do together or that you consciously think about?
[20:43] Tom Conti: Um, probably not. No. I guess I don't know. I think from a career side, I probably think longer term out than she does. And obviously she just kind of stopped. And so who knows, she might start to see what else is out there maybe at the end of the school year. But no, not really. I don't think that we're like, oh, we're hoping to do this by the time we're 50 or by the time we're 55 or anything like that. I would say a medium term. So for trips, we're always thinking one to two years out or for that kind of stuff, but not outside of that. Probably not much.
[21:46] Tara Bansal: I don't know, maybe because I consider myself a planner, but we don't plan trips one to two years out as much as I wish we so to me it's a little bit of it's all relative. I think you guys are good planners. And I don't know if this was part of Tina's question, is how much of it is you guys planning together?
[22:20] Tom Conti: I think we do plan together, and I guess maybe the right way to answer it is I think we think there's certain things that we thankfully value equally, and so our family trips are definitely one of those. And it's like we know we pretty much get two family trips a year. We get spring break and we do a summer trip. And so those are the big things that we plan for. And I don't know if it's because of COVID or anything, but I think we have decided that we should be doing a different trip. We should be going somewhere different or trying to do some or trying to do something different.
[23:09] Tara Bansal: So how have things been since Anne has been home? I know the summer is its own time, but now school has started and I just wondered from your perspective. How does it feel?
[23:26] Tom Conti: Maybe I take change in a good way, but it hasn't been all that different. Right. I think obviously it helps for her to take care of a lot more stuff during the day and a little bit less so frantic. I think she appreciates the ability to get that stuff done as opposed to trying to squeeze it in during the workday or kind of after work. But I think otherwise, I'd say our meal prep has been better and other small things, like, I mean, I would also been I think one of the funnier parts was right. So we went to Africa, and we did a safari this summer, and she made the comment it was the first long vacation we had been on since she stopped work, and she had no work email to come back to. She was like, I just got to go home. I was like, oh, that sounds great.
[24:35] Christina Donovan: Yeah, don't rub it in.
[24:37] Tom Conti: Exactly.
[24:38] Tara Bansal: Digging out which everybody dreads.
[24:41] Tom Conti: Correct. But no, I think it's been a good transition.
[24:46] Christina Donovan: Do you feel like things generally are easier at all or there's less stress in your household because she's not working or no, I mean, I'm just curious.
[25:01] Tom Conti: I think in general, yes, I think the after school time to the activities is probably where it can still get a little bit hectic who's driving who where, and kind of who's doing what. But I think overall, yes, I think for her, she's a lot less stressed about everything because she was probably thinking more about the kids and that stuff on top of work, and so now I think she's able to focus on that and kind of get organized around it and just feel better about it.
[25:43] Tara Bansal: It almost sounds like it hasn't been as much a change as you guys expected. Would you say that or that's not true?
[25:54] Tom Conti: Um, it's probably a better question for her, is the way that I would describe it. So I think from, like, I think she has adjusted well, and she has her friends that she's able to be during the daytime or could take a walk with friends, and so I think she's been able to keep up that social interaction. So I think that's been a big thing that I think has gone fairly seamlessly. It wasn't hard, and she already had some friends who didn't work either, and so she was able to just kind of hop into that. But I think that's a fair assessment. I don't think it's been an overly dramatic change. I think when we talked about last, I think she also said that it's only been maybe six weeks. So I think the first few weeks were just like, wow, I have a lot of time during the day, but I don't feel like I get very much done. And so to have you kind of start to shift through that, or if you do an errand, then that's an hour, and that's a large chunk of time.
[27:09] Tara Bansal: Yeah, I can relate to that. Would you say anything for how it's affected you?
[27:23] Tom Conti: No, I guess that's what I don't know. I think she asked me at one point, are you expecting me to do more or anything? And I don't really have any expectations around that. So it wasn't like I was expecting all these things to get done that weren't getting done or were getting done that we wanted to keep getting done. And so I don't know. So maybe it was more around. My expectations were that things weren't going to change that much again. And what I told her is this is really all about our kids. It's not like while the meal prep got better, that's not the main reason why you're doing this, so that you're able to get grocery shopping done and stuff so that we don't do it on a Saturday morning. Right. It's more make sure that our kids you're around for the kids, you're able to spend time with the kids, and you can help our kids out for whatever they need. And they all need a little bit different things. Right. Will needs help making sure that he can find a friend who can kind of hang out with because he could use a little bit of help of like, did you reach out to this kid to hang out? It's like no, I didn't. Why don't and he does, and they can hang out with, you know, whereas for Claire, it's kind of the opposite, where she always has somebody to hang out with, she's always doing something, but then it's like, well, you should probably find time to read that book. Claire they each kind of have their own set of needs that I think that's where we both have agreed is probably the main benefit for her to be at home.
[29:16] Christina Donovan: If you asked your children, do you think they would say things have changed or they've noticed a change?
[29:24] Tom Conti: That's a good question. I think they all are very happy with the change, so how much they would say things have changed. I think just besides Anne being around and being able to probably do more fun things because she is around, I think our kids are kind of oblivious. So I don't know if you would get a whole lot of reaction out of them when it comes to this age, but I don't know. I mean, it'd be an interesting thing to ask them and kind of see what they say.
[30:09] Tara Bansal: Do you feel like you're missing out with them, getting to do fun stuff or stuff without you?
[30:17] Tom Conti: Maybe, but I don't know, maybe I'm more of a traditionalist that there has to be some dividing and kind of conquering in terms of who does what. And so I would say Anne will do a lot better job of that stuff with their kids than I would. And so I'm not saying that I would do a bad job, but I just think I just have a very realistic and kind of rational viewpoint on that. So, yeah, I mean, there were definitely times in the summer where it's 02:00 on a Wednesday and they're taking the boat out, how to go tubing. I'm like, oh, man, that'd be nice to do that. But at the same time, that's kind of the way that the setup is.
[31:14] Tara Bansal: When you thought about being in your mid 40s, would you say this is what you imagined, or how is it different?
[31:31] Tom Conti: Um, it's probably what I guess maybe the better way to say it is it's what I was hoping it would be is maybe the better way to say it, right? There could be a lot of unfortunate things that could happen or other things like that. And so maybe in my mid 20s, if you were to ask, where would I want to be, I think this is about where I would want to be, and I'm happy with kind of how things have all kind of unfolded.
[32:16] Tara Bansal: That's great.
[32:22] Christina Donovan: What are some of your worries or concerns about the future? Do you have any or you just feel like things right now? As long as they keep moving in the same direction, it's all good.
[32:37] Tom Conti: The easy answer as a parent is all about the kids. I have all sorts of worries about each of my kids, and they're all different. So I think that's probably the easy answer. And the thing that you hear all the time, right, is that when your kids are little, they have lots of problems, but they're all small problems, and as they get older, they have fewer problems, but they're much harder to solve. And so I just think that's where for a lot of I just envision that a lot of the worry that I have is kind of with our kids development and making sure that we're and you can only do so much, but it's hard as a parent to not try to fix everything or not try to set everything up for them. And so I think that's probably the hardest thing is just having to realize that when they get older, you could do all sorts of stuff for them, but they're still going to be on their own, and it's up to them. I think that's the easy answer there, I think, and this maybe isn't a worry, but I think it's probably and it's maybe what helped get Anne to stop working is really trying to make the deliberate the deliberate decisions around how you want to maximize life. So in general, right, a part of me says, why are we doing all of these different sports activities and all this stuff? And it's like, well, there's only a certain stretch, but trying to be aware of that and make the right time, decisions around where to spend your time or what you or what you want to do. And so I think for work, that's where that kind of boundary, I think, has come in. And I think that's maybe where the planning is. I don't necessarily want to stop working now, but I do want to set it up for in five or ten years when I could work more on a part time, but still feel valued and kind of enjoy that aspect. And so just trying to figure if that's a worry, but maybe that's more on the planning side. And maybe I am a lot more of a planner than I think I am, but just trying to do that thought process and the worry that maybe we don't make the right decision or we don't do the right things to continue to head or to continue to spend time where we want. I don't know. I guess we're both pretty aware of the midlife crisis, I guess, since that's what we're kind of talking about. Where do you spend your time? How do you want to get set up in order to spend your time where you think you should be with what you want to do?
[35:55] Tara Bansal: Yeah, I love that. I think that's part of, for me, what this podcast is about, and you said, like, maximizing life and being intentional with those choices and how to set it up. Part of the reason Tina and I are doing this together is Tina's kids are older. Like, she's in a different phase than you and I, Tom, are. Right. Like, we're kind of in the activity.
[36:24] Tom Conti: We're in the grind.
[36:25] Tara Bansal: Yeah, but not the grind of little kids and naps and diaper change and food and all of that. It's very different. But I just love how intentional you guys are and conscious of trying to make decisions around your family and your kids and having that be the focus.
[36:50] Christina Donovan: Yeah. One of the things I think happens when you have such busy days.
[37:00] Tara Bansal: Just.
[37:00] Christina Donovan: The activities and the driving and getting everybody to where they need to go day in, day out. It's not like your weekends are any restful or easier than your weekdays. And I think it's very easy to just keep pushing off, thinking about what's important. How do I want to spend my time? Because you're so busy, it's easy to kind of just throw some of those things to the back of your head, and then before you know it, your kids are in high school, they're graduating, and it's like, it's all done. So yeah, I think it's super impressive to hear that you guys are so conscious of that and so deliberate in your thinking.
[37:44] Tom Conti: Maybe on the opposite side, we might think too much about it, where, like, maybe it was two weeks ago, we had a Sunday where, I don't know, we only had one soccer game at like, 11:00 in the morning or something. Right. And so we basically had, like our Sunday afternoon was wide open and. That was like a big thing, right? Like, whoa, what are we going to do? And then you almost put too much pressure on that. You need to do something. And it's like, well, it's actually kind of nice just to kind of be at home. The kids kind of doesn't kind of float around. We can make a bigger meal and just kind of do that. And so there is a bit of I guess it can almost go to the opposite end of when you're doing that. You're like, well, jeez, we should have done something bigger because it's one of the few Sundays in the fall where we don't really have that much. We couldn't think of anything else to do anyway. But I just think it's a balancing act of making sure that you do some stuff but you don't go overboard too.
[38:58] Tara Bansal: Yeah, I can relate to that. I mean, in our household, there are those that want to be doing something like almost every minute and then there's some that's like, can't we just lay around and do whatever we want, have to go somewhere and have a big event? Would you say you're struggling with anything right now? I don't get the impression you are, but I just wondered.
[39:30] Tom Conti: You mean the only I think I probably have overly high expectations of what to expect from my job and the enjoyment. And so I think like anybody else, I went back to a startup for it to be all fun and all great and it's not always the case. And so it's like, well, is it worth? I think like anybody I don't know, and maybe this is a common thing in the for work is like you really want your job if you're going to spend this amount of time and kind of invest, you want it to feel you want to be fun or you want to get that fulfillment. And so when you don't always get that, maybe that's is this still the right spot? Is it where you should be? Is it where you should be spending your time? And of course, the grass isn't always greener, but you probably get that in almost any job where you're in the grind of having to try to move all sorts of stuff forward at the same time.
[40:54] Tara Bansal: Yeah. How would you define fulfillment? And is that different than success for you?
[41:07] Tom Conti: Yeah, it probably is in that our company could be super successful and I could still be miserable at my job. Right. And I think there's other people who are willing to take any kind of misery to say that the place there they're at has grown by X or Y and is kind of doing all these things. And so I definitely want that fulfillment to and again, you're never going to love everything that you do at your job. So that's not what I'm trying to say, but just more the fun has to be more than the frustration. And so just making sure that you find that balance.
[42:01] Tara Bansal: And is that how you would describe fulfillment? Like the fun or the growth or whatever it is worth the negatives or the things you dislike?
[42:12] Tom Conti: Yeah, I think yes, I would probably say I would actually prefer to grow for our growth to be slightly less, but to enjoy the experience more rather than pushing so hard to try to get these things done that it makes everybody frustrated. And just the way that you go about it makes it I mean, yes, you might get something out a month earlier. I'd rather not do that and have teams working together better than at their throats to try to make the deadlines, but at the same time we're losing a bunch of money, we got to get things out. So it's just a delicate balance, too. But I think that's my philosophy of kind of maybe where the frustration is for my current spot of just having to find that balance. I'd rather there be more fulfillment in that regard and more teamwork and kind of success across than having to just always push.
[43:27] Tara Bansal: Yeah, and I don't know how much of this is related to age, but for me, I agree. Sometimes I'm like, why push to the limit when, yeah, maybe it does happen and I get there's money involved. But that's part of if you can take the long term perspective of the teams working better or everybody's work life balance is better, then they perform better. I don't know. The older you are, the more you can shift. And maybe that's just me, I don't know.
[44:07] Tom Conti: No, I mean, you can read all sorts of books on the growth mindset and short term decisions that can lead to not long term success. Right. Because you get people to leave or you end up making these decisions for the short term and then it takes more work in the long term to dig yourself out. And by the way, I'm not saying that we're necessarily making that it's just more from a fulfillment side. I think that's what I would say. I'd rather us slow down, but focus and be more successful. And I think that's where my frustration is right now, I guess. Is there anything that I worry about? Is that what the question was or what was the or that I would change?
[45:11] Tara Bansal: Yeah. Struggling with or would like to change right now?
[45:19] Tom Conti: I think this podcast is making me think that I'm more of a planner than I thought. But just I think that's the other, I guess, from, like, a big picture worry is just making sure that we're making the right decisions of how to kind of set everything up, both from our kids to grow up, be happy, and be healthy. And how do we make sure that we're doing things in a way that we see ourselves being happy in the long run, too? And just never quite knowing what the right answers are to some of the things that you have to overcome.
[45:59] Christina Donovan: Do you and Anne talk about retirement?
[46:03] Tom Conti: We do.
[46:05] Christina Donovan: I just wonder because you're still pretty far know, especially compared to some of the older people in our family, some of the older siblings.
[46:14] Tom Conti: No. And that's where I would love to find a way that I could stop working full time but still be able to get that fulfillment or at least have something to do is maybe a better way to say it too. And I think that's where one of the things that I wanted to do, which is kind of funny because kind of got and to stop working is I really wanted to take a break between the company that bought my last company was a 10,000 person large healthcare conglomerate. And I really wanted to take a break before I started my next job. When this new startup happened, I really wanted to join it, so I didn't. But I think having I really wanted to take a break to kind of see what the opportunities are for other ways to work besides just one kind of full time job. And so from a retirement side that's really I don't know if to truly stop working, I think is further out. But I'm optimistic that in five or ten years I could find more of this type of a blended role and it's probably more like ten years. And so that's what we always talk about. And so for Anne, for her kind of to stop work, this was kind of a chance for her to kind of reset and also see what are some interesting opportunities that might not be full time or working in kind of the corporate world where you can still add value and find these types of work opportunities.
[48:11] Tara Bansal: Yeah, people who listen to me, I'm a big believer in that I don't really believe in quote unquote, retirement where you stop working completely. And I think part of my role as a financial planner is I view it as financial freedom, where you find a role that works for you with the flexibility or with the hours that you are looking for with that fulfillment. And with that, you may need to make a certain amount of money. But hopefully you can find a way that you like.
[48:55] Tom Conti: I think why Anne stopped working was for we're fortunate that she could and it wasn't like know, we weren't going to make ends meet and so we were able to do that and really provide her that opportunity to kind of reevaluate where she wants to spend her time. So from a career side and that might be that she takes off more time but being able to have that to kind of think through and then from a retirement side, that's kind of what I think about is just trying to set that up.
[49:38] Christina Donovan: What do you think of the word legacy. Is it something you think about? Is it a word you feel comfortable talking about?
[49:51] Tom Conti: Is it my personal legacy or just a legacy? Yeah, I don't really think about it that much. This isn't really, I think, what you're asking. But I think probably the more important part is for my kids, making sure that I kind of show or a good kind of still representation to my kids over what you should think about or how you should think about life. I don't know if that makes any sense, but I think outside of that, my goal isn't to make a big stamp on this world.
[50:48] Tara Bansal: I love how you phrased that was your perspective, is being an example for your kids to learn from and carry on. How do you do that now?
[51:08] Tom Conti: I guess it goes back to what I started talking about, right? Just spending time with them. So making sure that I am supportive can spend time with them, make sure that they're able to feel the love. And that's probably the main thing. And then from an example side, I do think it's important for them to know that you do have to work hard. I think that it's important for them to know that. And this is why I actually think sports are fairly important for youth and for kids. And it was a big thing for me, is that you learn the responsibility, hard work, and the dedication that you need to kind of do towards things. And so that's maybe the example I want to make sure that my kids learn.
[52:06] Tara Bansal: Anything you wish we had asked you or any words of advice that.
[52:13] Tom Conti: You have, you should have asked me, if I didn't have to work, what would I do? Well, answer that question. That was the one question I thought that you're going to ask me.
[52:25] Tara Bansal: So answer it now since we failed on that.
[52:30] Tom Conti: You would love I want to make sausages. I'd pickle food, and if I really went for it, I would make my own cheese. Those would be the three things that I would want to do as, like a long term hobby of something that I think would be fun to do.
[52:49] Christina Donovan: Sound great?
[52:50] Tara Bansal: Fascinating. Yeah, it shows how much you enjoy cooking and making things. And that's so different than what you're doing now. I mean, I know you guys are incredible cooks and you do a lot.
[53:03] Tom Conti: But I love that I find great enjoyment in, let's say, medium, effort things that produce something. And the cheese thing would probably take a lot more time and stuff, but, you know, you can make sausage in an afternoon. It'd be fun. I don't know. It's funny. I guess that's always been my joke of what I would spend my time on. And I don't know if I would actually do it if I didn't work, but I would maybe give it a shot. I guess I'd all say that the one thing is I would greatly enjoy finding a hobby like that where it wasn't to be successful. It's not like you're going to make a ton of money or do this or that, but just have something that you really enjoy doing, that you could make something and spend some time on it and have fun with it. Yeah.
[54:10] Christina Donovan: And look forward to it. It doesn't sound like you have any room in your life right now for.
[54:19] Tara Bansal: Any of those things. You've thought about it.
[54:25] Christina Donovan: Yeah.
[54:29] Tara Bansal: I don't know. To me, that in itself is impressive. So thank you.
[54:35] Tom Conti: Yeah, sure.
[54:38] Tara Bansal: Gosh, I feel like there were quite a few valuable words of wisdom in this episode. I loved the idea of setting a new boundary when you make a major change, especially a new job. What really stood out for me is how thoughtful and intentional Tom and Ann are with how they live their lives and spend their time. They are successful, and this isn't just because of hard work and luck. They know what they want and live their life accordingly. Much better than most people I know. Family is super important to them and this is their primary focus and it shows. One of my favorite parts is when Tom said he wants his children to, quote, feel the love. And he realizes that this is primarily from them spending time together and him giving them his attention. I have always admired Tom, and this interview just made me admire him even more. For show notes and other information about our podcast, please go to our website, messymiddlescence.com. If you enjoyed listening, please share with others and come back for more.
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Tom Conti has worked in the healthcare technology industry for over 20 years. In 2002, they began working for Epic as an Imaging Integration Development Lead, Radiant R&D Product Lead, Radiant Technical Services Lead, EDI Interface Analyst Team Lead, and EDI Interface Analyst. In 2013, they became Vice President Product and Technology at National Decision Support Company (NDSC), which was acquired by Change Healthcare in 2018. In 2020, they took on the role of Vice President Technical Strategy at Change Healthcare, where they were responsible for leveraging and optimizing technology across Decision Support products. Most recently, in 2022, they became Chief Product Officer at KeyCare, where they are responsible for providing health systems access to a network of independent virtual care providers working on KeyCare's Epic-based platform.
Tom Conti attended Marist School from 1992 to 1998 and then Lawrence University from 1998 to 2002, where they earned a Bachelor of Arts (BA) in Mathematics and Computer Science.
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