3. Taking the Leap with Anne Conti
“Tom said to me, ‘you can always quit.’ I think that people forget that, right? You don’t have to stay at a job that doesn’t work for you.”
Today’s episode was recorded back in June of 2023 right after school let out. Due to busy and conflicting schedules it took us until the fall to get our podcast live.
This episode is with Anne Meilke Conti. She is the wife of our youngest brother, Tom, and at the time of this interview had recently quit her job to spend more time with her family. Anne and Tom have three children. Anne has had a successful career for the past 20 years working for two healthcare information technology companies. We were excited to talk to Anne to learn more about her and this major change in her life. She had many words of wisdom and eye-opening perspectives for us. She is an admired business leader AND is an amazing mother who prioritizes her family and relationships.
There was so much good stuff that we almost made this interview into a two parter. After some debate, we decided to keep it as one longer episode.
Although Anne is on the younger end of “middlescence”, Anne’s courage in making such a significant job and life change will inspire anyone contemplating taking a leap that greatly alters your life.
In this episode we ask Anne:
Why did she decide to leave her job?
How long was she thinking about doing this?
What does she like to do? (We think many of us can relate to her answer to this question)
What were the obstacles she had to overcome to make this change happen?
What does she want to do during this time when she is not working outside the home?
You must listen to the end to hear her wise response to “How would she rate her happiness on a scale of 1-10?"
What feels most scary to her right now?
What is most important to her during this time of her life?
Highlights from “Taking the Leap” with Anne Conti
The need for external deadlines to help motivate us to take action or make a decision.
The common fear that if you quit your job, you will not be able to find something else and then be banished from the workforce forever or stuck in a worse job.
It is not retirement but rather a pause or a sabbatical.
It is much easier to make hard decisions when you don't think of them as final.
Anne felt pride and received positive feedback for stepping away and taking a career break. She hopes she is an example and role model, so that other people do it too. She wants those who take a break or consider leaving their job to believe and have faith that there's something better.
Anne eloquently discusses both the opportunities and the issues co-vid caused in our workplaces and careers. There are lasting impacts of co-vid on our jobs and on each of us.
Childcare. It is difficult and frustrating to hear firsthand the stress and problems childcare causes working mothers. How and why is this still such as issue for American working mothers?
Anne worried about how quitting could possibly have negative ramifications for the company. This shows her thoughtfulness and concern for her previous employer and others.
We loved how Anne described herself and Tom as “thoughtful spenders” rather than “good budgeters”. We suspect many people view themselves this way. Being a thoughtful spender and having a thorough knowledge of their financial situation helped Anne feel comfortable to take this “Big Leap.”.
Anne’s concern about the changes or impact on her relationship now that she is not working and holding as high power a job as Tom. This is new and different and disrupting their old system.
Anne admits that she may need to re-evaluate how she views success, accomplishment, and even herself without having a high-powered job.
Her number one goal while she is not working is “just to move more in her daily life”. How simple is that! We think everyone can relate to this. We love how she intends to get steps in by “just living, doing and being present with her family."
-
[00:22] Christina Donovan: Are you between the ages of 40 and 60?
[00:26] Christina Donovan: Do you feel the need for change.
[00:28] Christina Donovan: In your life but are not sure.
[00:29] Christina Donovan: Why or when or how?
[00:32] Christina Donovan: Do you feel a pressure of running out of time? Do you spend most of your time doing things that are not important to you anymore?
[00:41] Christina Donovan: These are all symptoms or characteristics of Middleescence. And this is our podcast, Messy Middleescence.
[00:50] Tara Bansal: Today's episode was recorded back in June, right after school let out. Due to busy and conflicting schedules, it took us until the fall to get our podcast live. This episode is with Anne Milkey conti she's the wife of our youngest brother Tom, and at the time of this interview had recently quit her job to spend more time with her family. I remember when Anne told us that she was quitting her job. I couldn't wait to talk with her because Tina and I had already started working on and planning this podcast. Anne taking the big leap and quitting her job was a big deal and exactly something I wanted to talk about on Messy Middle essence. And here she was going through it right then and there. Anne generously agreed to talk with us, and she did not disappoint with her openness vulnerability and words of wisdom. Anne and our brother Tom have three children. She's had a successful career for the past 20 years, working for two healthcare information technology companies. We were excited to talk to Anne and learn more about her and this major change in her life. She had many insights and eye opening perspectives for us. She's an admired business leader and an amazing mother who prioritizes her family and relationships. Although Anne is on the younger end of Middleescence, anne's courage in taking such a significant job and life change will inspire anyone contemplating taking a leap that majorly alters your life. We hope you enjoy this episode as much as we did.
[02:25] Anne Conti: Welcome.
[02:26] Christina Donovan: This is Tara Bansel and I'm here with Christina Donovan and Anne Milkey conti. We're super excited to have Anne here. She is the wife of the youngest conti brother, Tom, and just I don't know, I'm so proud and excited that she's part of our family. She's super impressive as a person. And let's just jump in. So welcome, Anne.
[03:01] Anne Conti: Thanks for having me.
[03:02] Christina Donovan: Yeah.
[03:03] Christina Donovan: Welcome, ann. So, Tari introduced your spatial proximity in our family, but I guess, what would you like people to know about you? Barry's question is usually, what's your story?
[03:20] Anne Conti: Oh, boy. Okay. Well, I have three kids. Will is eleven, almost twelve. Claire is nine, and Charlote is just now seven. So I am now here home with the kids, and we're headed into a crazy summer. But I recently left my job. I have been in healthcare it basically healthcare software for the last 20 years, doing all sorts of things, and just went through a big life change to just stay home with the kids for a bit.
[04:00] Christina Donovan: A little bit of where you grew up and however much you want to share.
[04:08] Anne Conti: Okay, well, I grew up in Wisconsin. I'm an only child. So very different than this conti family that I married into. So just me and my know, I did a lot of sports and activities. I rode horses, I did other sports, and then went to college at Northwestern University in Chicago. Somewhat close to home, but far enough away where I met a lot of my lifelong friends, know, people that I still keep good touch with now. And since then, we moved to Madison, Wisconsin, and I guess I moved and started a job here at a healthcare software company. Met Tom a few years after moving here, and I guess we went from there. So Tom and I worked at the same company for ten years and then both left to pursue other ventures at other healthcare software companies and have continued down that path, growing our life and our family here in Madison.
[05:20] Christina Donovan: What do you love to do?
[05:22] Anne Conti: What do I love to do? I feel like this is a joke now that I'm in the part of my age that I am now, because I feel like I don't really have Hobies other than hanging out with my kids and being a chauffeur and a mom and maybe a hobby is a good idea. But it feels like I barely have time for anything else. Generally, we like to spend a lot of time together as a family. I think that's a big thing we do. We cook all our meals and really enjoy a lot of time together as much as we can with all of our activities. And we live on the lake here, so we enjoy being out on the boat, out on the lake, and also going to all the sports that the kids do in general. So our kids are very active in hockey, soccer, cheer, swim. So I think that my main hobby is getting my kids to their sporting events. It feels like it takes up the majority of my time, so I think it sounds right.
[06:30] Christina Donovan: A lot of moms can relate to that.
[06:32] Anne Conti: Yes.
[06:35] Christina Donovan: Can you talk a little bit on why you decided to leave your job?
[06:40] Christina Donovan: Sure.
[06:41] Anne Conti: I feel like it's a hard question to answer. There's not a specific answer, but it's something I've talked about and thought about for a long time. I think I've gone through a couple of job changes. Well, barely any. I feel like that's an interesting point, is that I've barely changed jobs. So I held one job for ten years and then moved into another company that I stayed at for another ten years. So I think change is not something that I'm jump into very easily. I know there's a lot of people that end up changing jobs every couple of years, and that certainly is not something that I've ever done. I moved into a new role a little over two years ago. And at that transition, it was kind of the end of the COVID Lockdown and things were starting to change a bit. But I was able to work from home and this new role would be fully remote from home and I was really excited about it. It was a big step up for me. I moved to managing a 200 person team in a global company with worldwide products and pretty big dominance in the market. So it was a really exciting role and I still loved everything about it. But I told myself even when I took that role, I was worried it was going to be a lot more demanding. And I thought that the role I had before, I actually had pretty good balance. I was able to do it in the right amount of time and I was able to spend good time with the kids. I didn't have to travel that much. And I kind of walked into this role not knowing we were still in COVID Lockdown and no one was traveling for work. But there was a chance that that would be something that would be a big part of this role. And I kind of went into the role know, I think Tom said to me, you can always quit. I think that people forget that, right? You don't have to stay at a job that doesn't work for you. And I think that that reassurance from Tom to just say if it doesn't like you can just leave. That's not something that you have to stick with. So I think that I'm grateful that I have pretty marketable skills in a very in demand market. So I'm in a space where I'm approached by recruiters all the time and this is not to say good things about myself, but more just it's the nature of the space that I work in that I have a very in demand skill set and experience set. So I've always had comfort that if I did want to leave a job, there would be something else, right? So going into this role, I felt all of that reassurance and really it was either take this new job or quit. I felt like I was at this precipice, either I advance or what am I doing? So I took the job, I enjoyed it. It was a great challenge. I stayed in it for over two years. But we always hit this point, and it's kind of a funny point, but I'm sure a lot of moms can relate, is that our nanny was graduating college and she was our after school nanny and we knew we'd have to find a new nanny for summer. And I think that that's like a funny reason to say like, oh, that's why I quit my job, because it's not. But it certainly created an event or a timeline or a structure in which to consider alternatives. So as I thought about it. I basically gave that as my deadline. I basically said, I need to decide by the end of spring break or close to that, I'm either quitting or we're posting for a nanny job. And that's, like, a strange difference. But those were the options that I gave myself, and I tried to give myself a bit of a deadline. And I think that it's always like, I found that that external force of having to find childcare or determine what to do creates a catalyst for you to at least consider options. And I think that that's happened a couple of times in my life when our nannies have quit or I just think childcare is such a burden for moms, and it's underappreciated how hard it is for a lot of people to figure out childcare and how do you make that work for your life. So I think when I thought about it this year, I'd been in the role over two years, and I think it was just like a doldrum of a winter, like just a repetitive winter. And I don't know if other people are feeling this, but working from home has so many benefits. Like, I feel super connected to my family, to the house, to my husband. But it feels really repetitive, I think not leaving your desk, being chained to your laptop on video calls all day. I've thought about if that made a difference, that if I was going into the office and it felt fresher, it felt like a different routine, or it felt like something like if I was traveling a bit more for work or doing something else. But the winter just being kind of like locked inside, sitting at my desk, I just started to feel so sedentary and just kind of like monotonous. I was just doing the same thing every day. And so I think just an amount of that and my kids being at ages that are fun and they like to hang out with me and they're not babies anymore, it felt like a good point in their life and my life to take some time. And so I think I just had to take the leap to decide, let's just go for it. I'm really thankful we're in a financial place that I can do that. And I think it's scary, but I started to realize this isn't the only job. There are other jobs. If I want to go back to work, there are other ways to do it. I think I talked to enough people that were like, this doesn't have to be like the end of your career. This is just the end of this job. And I think I really related it to the end of my career, and that's not really the case, or it doesn't need to be the case. And I think that's an important distinction that started to come to light. So I think when people would joke that I was retiring, I'd be like, no, I'm taking a pause. And so I've tried to rebrand the decision to just a pause or a sabbatical.
[14:30] Christina Donovan: That's what I love is you're taking.
[14:32] Anne Conti: A just tom even says she's taking the summer, and he's not in any way pressuring that it's only the summer or something like that. But it's an easy way to make it not feel so final. And I think it's easier to make hard decisions when you don't think of them as final. And so that was a very long answer to your question.
[15:00] Christina Donovan: Can you talk a minute about your last day? I mean, it's such a scary change, but was your last day, were you happy? Were you sad? Were you excited? Were you scared? Was it all of those things?
[15:17] Anne Conti: Yeah, I think the days that I had to tell people were the hardest, mostly because I think it was unexpected to everybody that I told.
[15:31] Christina Donovan: They didn't see it coming.
[15:33] Anne Conti: They did not see it coming. And so from my boss to my team to my peers, it was very unexpected, and I think I also was emotional about the decision, and I can't really put a label on those emotions. I think it was like, I'm proud of myself for taking the time for me and my family, and that makes me emotional. It makes me emotional to leave all the people that I've been with for a long time and I see as friends and colleagues. So I think it was, like, a lot of emotions, but I certainly I don't think I was scared. I knew. And as it turned out, like, a lot of people were very kind and gracious and complimentary of my decision. And that even having some coworkers and people that I manage say, I really look up to you as such a powerful woman at the peak of her career making such a bold choice. That's an example that you can step away and you can make those choices. And I've had a lot of women that are successful in their careers say, I've thought about that a lot of times, too. What if I did do that? And I think, in a way, it gives people courage to think about alternatives to the path that they're on. So I think at first, I was worried as a woman that it would say something bad about my company being as an executive at the company. I was worried that people would see.
[17:34] Christina Donovan: Them as not accommodating or not a.
[17:39] Anne Conti: Good place for women or mothers to work. And I even talked to some leaders and folks about that, and they were like, I don't think you should be worried about that. You obviously were here a long time. And so I did try to say that, though, to people, that it wasn't that I felt like undue burdens were put on me from this company or anything along those lines. But I did talk a bit to people about how I think, in a way, society gets very black and white about these things, and the structures around it are very black and white. Like childcare is a very black and white decision. There's not like part time flexible childcare. So you can have a part time flexible job, but you don't suddenly also have part time flexible childcare that is there when you need it. And so I think it's nice for people to say like, oh, there's all these different types of jobs that you can have part time or they're flexible or you can work when you want and it's like, yeah, but who fills in those gaps? There isn't an alternative structure to support your life that matches that concept when you have kids that still need care or driving or other things. And so it's interesting to think about just the constructs in society aren't really built for that. Even if people want to throw around all this flexibility and stuff, it's like, well, but do you expect me to have a kid while I'm working? I don't think that isn't thought in a way all the way through. And maybe it's because in the position I was in, I'm on video calls all day. It's not like I'm on my computer writing things and can also manage my kids a little bit. I'm on heads down video calls. I can't multitask that very well.
[19:40] Christina Donovan: I remember when I was working, I worked and had a plan and if a child was sick, I was like, now what do I do? Then you have to call in sick. Because I did have childcare during other times, but I expected them to go to school and then suddenly, oh no, I don't know. I know most have experienced that, but it's just like you said. It's all these things that you know.
[20:16] Anne Conti: It is like when Tom and I used to go into the office when a kid was sick. It was our most stressful conversations, deciding whose meetings were more important or it felt like, whose job today is more important and the other person has to stay home. And that is not a conversation that anyone wants to have and a debate. I certainly think working from home has created a lot of flexibility for those pieces. But that's also because my kids are older. My kids are at a point where they can be put in front of the TV if they're sick and watch some movies and I can work from home. So I appreciate that flexibility. But it's not easy for parents. It's not easy to do to take care of kids and have two working parents.
[21:15] Christina Donovan: Even when you took this, what was your title? Sure.
[21:20] Anne Conti: I was the vice president of customer experience.
[21:24] Christina Donovan: I mean, it was a big job, like you said. You had 200 people reporting to you and how much travel? I know you did some travel. How much travel was it? And would you have liked I guess I'd love to even hear a little bit you mentioned if you were in the office. Could you imagine an ideal around that or not?
[21:55] Anne Conti: Yeah. When I took the job, I was told I would probably be traveling at least once a month into an office because the executive leadership team, the CEO at the time, really wanted them to meet in person. So I had that going into my mind, and I had that thought about, but it wasn't really real because no one was traveling. It took a long time, and that concept, as we got further and further away with the offices still closed, it really dissipated, and more of the executive team was hired in remote positions, which was a real shift for the company itself. When I took this position, it was within my same larger corporate company, but it was a different division, which that was never an opportunity for me before COVID because they weren't hiring people remote. So in some ways, working remote opened up the doors for me and a lot of people to work for companies that never were previously an option. So I really appreciated that opportunity. As the world started to open back up again, I did start to travel more. I would say it was a little less than once a month. There were times that it became a little bit more, and some of the trips were further and some were shorter. Right. It was really variable. I flew to Japan, I flew to Portugal, I flew just to Boston. There were short trips, there were long trips, and I think the travel was okay because of my ability to otherwise be fully home. I don't like work travel that much. I think it's really stressful to leave home when our kids are as busy as they are. There's just a lot to manage, and my husband's extremely competent, but I don't like to miss things either. I don't want to miss concerts, I don't want to miss sporting events, et cetera. And I did miss those things because of work trips, and that was never something I really enjoyed. I do think the international aspect at least made me more interested in some of the work travel. It's certainly a lot more exciting to travel to Tokyo than it is to Cincinnati, Ohio. But that being said, I certainly think work travel was energizing. It was something that made me enjoy the job and get to be with people, know, have collaborative discussions. I do think that created more enjoyment in the job rather than just sitting by myself at the laptop. I never met these people for so long, going into a job during COVID So finally getting back to travel, in a way, I was really grateful for it. Where previously I really resented work travel, and at least in this role, I still felt grateful for it because it did spice up my work a bit. It is really hard and exhausting to be on camera all day at your laptop. It's a different type of attention, and I think all of us have had a hard time adjusting to that type of attention. And I find it more exhausting in a way. I know that I used to go to meetings all day, but for some reason it feels different. And maybe it's because you actually get up and you walk around where here I was, clicking off one meeting and jumping onto another meeting, barely walking around the house. Yeah, it's certainly a different environment. I don't know what the right answer is. I know I've been reading articles, I was even reading some this morning about some companies offering both carrots and sticks to have people come back to the office. And I have really mixed feelings about it because I wouldn't have been able to. I personally was hired remote, and I feel like that was a good thing for me and the company. We were able to hire the right people for the job even though they weren't in the location of the office. So you can't put a price on that either. Right. So we just created a situation where going to the office wasn't really feasible. There weren't a lot of people in that vicinity. But I know that companies are still struggling with this because of probably some of what I was feeling myself. A little lack of connectedness, little bit of repetitiveness, and too much quiet. But it also afforded me a lot of flexibility to run over to the school if a kid was sick or be at home already and not miss work if there was something going on. So there's a lot of pros and cons to it.
[27:05] Christina Donovan: Even when you took this role two years ago, it was a little bit like, let's see what happens. And it sounds like you did enjoy it and you learned a lot. You had the spring break deadline of trying to decide, is this the time to leave? How long before that would you say you've been contemplating this? Or I guess I just wonder, how long have you been thinking were you thinking about? Because I think it's a common thing of trying to figure out what you want to do and how to do it.
[27:51] Anne Conti: Yeah, I think there's probably some friends that would say, oh, you have been talking about this for a while, and friends that I don't even see that much. So I obviously have thought about it multiple times and have been thinking about it, but it's hard to put a finger on why this time, why now? I do think I needed a bit of an external situation to push the issue. And I think a lot of people, when they're having a hard time making a tough decision, welcome some sort of outside force to push them in one way or another, or at least create a situation where you are making a decision, it's easy to make no decision. And I think that's what I was always doing was making no decision or no choice. So having this external factor of deciding about hiring a nanny, which is not my favorite thing by the way, interviewing and trying to find a nanny is hard. It's hard to find the right childcare and who you're trusting your kids with. So it sounds trivial, but it is one of those things that created an external factor. So I think every time I went through that portion of trying to find a nanny, this question always was in my mind and I just wasn't ready before to pull the parachute and say, I'm out and I don't know why this time, but it just was. I think it was just I did give myself a bit when I took this role, like should wait it out at least two years. I think in my head I've created a construct which I think is maybe somewhat industry norm, where you don't really want to be at a job less than two years unless it's terrible. But two years somehow is some external construct. You gave it a go. You were there long enough, you did things. So I think that was probably some part of it as well.
[30:15] Christina Donovan: What were some of the obstacles you feel like you had to overcome to make the change happen? And I mean, I guess were most of those obstacles mental and emotional or were there other things in your day to day life that you kind of.
[30:30] Christina Donovan: Had to figure out?
[30:32] Anne Conti: There's clearly the financial piece of it which I tried to block out of my mind a little bit. I think I'd already quit. And I looked at we're not big budgeters around here, let's just be clear. I'm sure some of you here much better at budgeting than us. But we're thoughtful spenders. We have a good sense of our financial status. But all of a sudden, even after I quit, I looked and I was like, oh, I do get a pretty healthy check on a regular basis. That's going to sting a little bit. And I think there was that moment that I thought about that and it was like, okay, but I didn't let that be part of our decision because I think every time we met with our financial planners who know our financial situation very clearly, we always ask the question, what if I quit? What if we retired even earlier? We came up with all these scenarios and they always gave us that reassurance. So when I was in the moment making the decision, I didn't think about financials because I knew I had this support from them conceptually. But it certainly after making the decision, I think I had a shock one day that I thought about it a little bit more. So that was one factor. I think the other was just I thought about the dynamics of our household, and Tom and I have always been equals, right? We both had full time jobs. We both contributed to the kids. We split up, what we did. We had the tasks that I did, the tasks that he did, those types of things. But I had some concern about destabilizing that balance and what would that mean? What would that be like? Would he think differently about our relationship or division of duties? Would I be resentful that he was still on a call or why isn't he done working? Or something like that, more than when I had those same answers, right? Like, oh, I can't do this, I can't do that.
[33:16] Christina Donovan: I want to jump in here because I think that way you and Tom are a little more unusual, and maybe it's just from our family. I think in most couples, there is one like their job is the primary, but you guys really were both equal in the importance of your job and how successful you were and financially and things like that. And I just think it's interesting that you even noticed. Yeah, this is disrupting your system. You had a system, right? You knew how it worked and both the emotional and the practical. In my house, yes, I work, but my husband's the primary breadwinner, so guess what? My meeting, I definitely have to deal with it, and he doesn't even tell me. Oh, I forgot to tell you, I'm going away on a business trip. I'm like what?
[34:20] Anne Conti: Yeah.
[34:21] Christina Donovan: How can you forget to tell me that?
[34:25] Anne Conti: No, that is true. We have always been fairly equal in that. And even now, he has moved to more of a startup again, where, you know, I had the more stable, you know, well paying role. You know, his is a little bit of a longer term play. Right. So there's just difference there that yeah, we both were equally invested and needed to be at our jobs, and you couldn't debate whose job was more important or who was the breadwinner, et cetera. Yeah, I definitely was concerned about that, and it was nothing ever that he did or said, and it was more about me and how I would feel. Like, how would I feel successful and what would he expect from me? Do I suddenly we have all of a sudden a clean house and healthy, nutritious food and well educated children. What was going to magically happen now that I'm home? But those are still questions I have in my head and how do I create my own space to feel like I'm doing what I want for our family, for myself? How do those routines fit in and how do I feel success or accomplishment? I think those are all still questions that are out there and things to think about through this transition.
[36:14] Christina Donovan: My reaction is that can take some time. Partly we were talking just the summer, every week. Is different, and that almost that shouldn't count for figuring out the system because it's kind of not the norm.
[36:34] Anne Conti: It is not. No. Yes.
[36:40] Christina Donovan: I'm just curious, what did your boss say when you told them?
[36:45] Anne Conti: Well, first of all, he was surprised, and it is a he, right? So he was surprised, but he was super supportive, and he was like, if you were going to another job, I would be tooth and nail fighting you over this and explaining to you why this role is better. But he's like, I can't even tell you to stay. Like, I want you to go if that's what you want to do. And he said his wife made a similar decision many years back, and she and him would never trade that. So I felt like he was just super supportive. And I think, in a way, people that have either had their spouse, themselves, or somebody they know make a similar choice or decision for a period of their life really were extra supportive and extra reassuring to that decision. Where I think there were some other voices out there, like, I could never stay at home, or that's not for me. I'm surprised that's what she would want to do type of voices. But those were by far the minority or just behind my back, and I didn't hear them.
[38:23] Christina Donovan: Are your kids excited to have you home, or is it just still sort of new enough? And I guess with the summer, too, it's like you've had two big changes in your life in terms of being home and then school ending.
[38:38] Anne Conti: In some ways, you make this decision and you expect confetti to go off when you tell them and like, this big revelation, and they're going to be so excited. But I think that's way too much pressure on them. They don't really know what it means because especially with working from home, our presence was so much more all encompassing for them than it was in the past. I think that they're definitely excited. I think they see it as a way to obviously spend more time with me, but also hopefully get to do more interesting things with the time we have together. It wasn't like I was letting the nanny take them to a water park or do something else, so I think they see some of those wins in it. And certainly my youngest has had the most reaction because she's super attached to me, and so I think she's super thankful. Now. That being said, I think they were really thank God that I was successful in my career, and so I think they also had a pause of like, why or when are you going back to work? Or things like that. So I think it's still processing a bit for them.
[40:16] Christina Donovan: What are you thinking know, Tom says just the like, are you trying to just live in the moment or do you have any plans for what you want to do.
[40:31] Anne Conti: I tried to be really intentional that I wouldn't think about it like this whole summer. I even have somewhat extended that to this whole year, right, and said, well, I really want to have the summer. The summer be about fun, the fall, get them back in school, maybe have some more time to think and also see what that routine looks like. That'll be different with them back in school. Already people have come to me with like, oh, this job, or you should talk to this person or this thing. And I'm like, no, stop. I don't want to talk about it. I think there's a lot of opportunities to look at things that aren't full time jobs and what would advising or consulting or other smaller roles look like? But I'm trying not to think about it and I think if I spent my whole time not working thinking about it, it would kind of muddy the waters of what I'm trying to do. So I think I am trying to just block it out. That being said, I've always been a very traditional like, I like to apply for a job, get a job, do the job. I've never been a huge networker or a huge, like, get the feelers out, keep professional relationships going because I've stayed to a pretty simple corporate path of roles and maybe that's to my disadvantage at this point, but it is what it is, right? We all are where we are and you can always change and do different things, but it's certainly to change out of the path of long term corporate roles to doing something else will take some effort and thought. So we'll see what happens.
[42:53] Christina Donovan: Love and admire that. You're just like, I'm taking this time to give yourself that time and not have any expectations and almost when people do that, to be like, no, not going to worry about that now. Go ahead.
[43:13] Christina Donovan: Well, I was going to say but do you have things in your own head for you that you're thinking like, I want to start meditating or I'm going to take an hour in the morning and hike or walk or work out in a different way or take a spin class. I don't know.
[43:30] Anne Conti: That list is longer than so I think that's probably the running joke at this point. The biggest thing that I think is simple and has been achievable so far is I just wanted to not be sitting anymore. And I know that sounds like so mundane, but to go from sitting in your desk all day, it really takes just a toll on you physically and mentally. And so being up and about in the house outside, I've been biking the kids all over the place. We've been doing a lot of just I think there's a term for it. I don't know what it is, but just your daily activity that isn't even a workout, but just being more active in your day to day activities has been my first goal, just to get steps in by living and doing things and being present and getting outside. So that was step one. That's like an achievable first step. And I feel like I'm at least checking that box. I certainly fell off the wagon as far as working out, so starting that back up again, I went to a couple of workout classes already since I've quit, which is more than I could say I was doing before while I was working. So gradually starting some of those things for myself was the first priority. And then the other lists are extensive, like, oh, I would like the closets to be clean and things to be gone and clean up the different rooms and make new foods. And I've settled myself down a little bit on that because, man, I already feel busy. I think that it is small wins. I'm trying to find like, well, what's one small thing that I could feel like is an accomplishment of my day versus putting this long idealized vision? I think it's always the grass is greener. You think when you quit work, you're going to suddenly have all this time and you're going to have this magical and you're like, wait, no, there's this whole other life that I have to do too. And now I've been doing some of those things wrong. Like, I'm not at my computer all day, so I've lost track of schedules and I have appointments and it's a big shift.
[46:21] Christina Donovan: I do think people ask me all the time when I'm going to go back to work, and I would like to go back to work, but I'm busy. I mean, there's not a point where I'm sitting down with my feet up watching television. It's like my day is booked. I think the one thing about being home that I think really helps is you control your schedule. I mean, even though your kids have stuff that they have to be here, here and here on those times in the middle, you can carve stuff out and you have a lot more control over when things happen, which, for me, I think is what I enjoy about being home. That it gives me a lot of flexibility, I guess. So hopefully you find that too, that even though it's not as much time as you thought, you can control the time that you have in ways that work for you.
[47:15] Anne Conti: I think it creates a different feeling for tasks that you need to get done that I have more time to do it so they don't feel as stressful to me as when I was trying to get those things, like get a birthday present for a friend or get to the store or do these other things. I feel like I have a lot more time to get it done. And so I think the whole stress level on accomplishing things has been lowered. Because whether it's true or not, I feel like, well, I have all this open time, and I kind of do, right? Like, I can take our time doing those things, and the kids go with me, or they do it with me, or we do other stuff. So that certainly has eased some of the mental burden. Just feeling like I have more time creates a lot of space.
[48:10] Christina Donovan: Yeah, great. That makes sense to me. On a scale of one to ten, how would you rate your happiness before you left your job, and then how would you rate it now? I feel like that's almost not a fair question because you just left.
[48:31] Anne Conti: No, I feel like I can't answer that. I think it's really hard. It's hard to say what equals happiness or it changes. I think it's a day to day, hour to hour feeling. I certainly think that there's some weight and burdens and stress that has been lifted. Whether that perfectly equates to happiness is an unknown part of the equation, as defining that is always a hard concept. But I certainly am feeling lighter.
[49:24] Christina Donovan: You may not want to give a number, and maybe happiness isn't, but even before, when you were working ballpark, would you say generally you felt pretty happy with your life, or would you say, no, I was like.
[49:43] Anne Conti: I was happy. I don't think that I wasn't I don't think that's a fair assessment to give myself, to think of it as a totally greener side of things, to suddenly quit and all your life's problems are solved, because I don't think that's realistic. I think there were a lot of things in my job that gave me joy and happiness and feelings of success that I think I will struggle with in this new space. So I think there's always trade offs. I think it's probably the stress that has decreased the most. And I never would say that I was stressed, but it was the juggling of what needed to get done in my personal and professional life that was a pretty heavy weight to carry on a regular basis. And how that made me feel was very then sometimes I would just shut down and just sit right, like, just be like, well, just keep going, right? As opposed to even try to get it all done or ask for help or whatever. So I do think that having lifted a few of those burdens is changing the dynamic of how I perceive life and what I need to do in a makes sense.
[51:29] Christina Donovan: Do you think that it will help Tom in the fact that he's not juggling as much, or was that not something you thought about or he's thought about?
[51:41] Anne Conti: Well, it was one of my questions for him. Was there's little things, like in the morning Tom is good about? I always had early calls, so Tom always did the dishes after breakfast and put things away and got some things done because I started on East Coast time, usually earlier than him, and I was like, are you going to stop doing some of that and expect me to do it? Is that like, a thing we're doing? He's like, no, I'm not changing anything. And that's a bit of the tone that he's taken, is that he's not changing anything. But I think we've talked about how he's grateful that our kids will have more time with me and that that is, like, what he really wants.
[52:38] Christina Donovan: I also think that there's that idea that juggling that weight that you talked about of doing, managing it all, he's doing a piece of that, too. And so hopefully some of that is eased on him, and maybe it's too soon to tell. He may not even realize it when it happens because it may be a know decrease.
[53:06] Anne Conti: Yeah, I think that's true. And I think that while Tom does so much, there's a lot of mental burden that I think women take on, whether we're trying to or not. That was weightier than what often the way that men approach, like, managing kids and households, that is a little bit different. They're a little bit more like task oriented, where we're a lot of thought oriented and trying to figure out so many things all the time, like, well, what camps should our kids go to? Have I signed them up for all the extracurricular activities? Should they get a tutor? How do I feel about that? What about that friend at? Like, these are not thoughts that run through Tom's head all day, and that's not a discredit to him. I just think that it's different the way that we process managing the household.
[54:05] Christina Donovan: And I was going to say they may have some of those thoughts, but I think maybe not to the extent that I think most women do.
[54:13] Anne Conti: Right? Yeah.
[54:15] Christina Donovan: What feels the most scary right now?
[54:28] Anne Conti: I don't know if I know yet. I think I've been doing a good job just enjoying the moment. I think it's probably scary to feel like I'm not meeting my own expectations for what I want to that long list we talked about, that I have this magic solution to all of our problems now, but I think I'm already doing better at lowering my own expectations. But that's probably the scariest that quitting doesn't suddenly make us happier, healthier, better people. What did it achieve? Is it just that I have more free time, or I feel like it needs to mean something, but I think I'm already lowering that bar a bit and realizing that it does without it being a magical clean house with all of those checklist of items.
[55:43] Christina Donovan: Going to jump in. But just hearing that you feel lighter is a big thing.
[55:53] Anne Conti: I don't know.
[55:54] Christina Donovan: I'm getting teary and getting to spend more time with your kids. That that's what both of you wanted.
[56:01] Anne Conti: That's right. Yeah.
[56:08] Christina Donovan: I mean, it's quite possible that it will be years before you realize the meaning of this.
[56:16] Anne Conti: That's right.
[56:18] Christina Donovan: It may not be a short term definable.
[56:25] Anne Conti: It won't be a checklist achievement.
[56:28] Christina Donovan: Right.
[56:29] Christina Donovan: It's going to be something that's long term and more just kind of more difficult to define.
[56:38] Anne Conti: Maybe that's easier to not have it defined. Right. It's easier to say it's an undefinable advantage and accomplishment.
[56:50] Christina Donovan: Yeah.
[56:51] Christina Donovan: And that goes to me, the feeling versus I now have this clean closet. I can show you that it's more about how you feel than anything else. What would you say is most important to you right now?
[57:12] Anne Conti: I think just being present with the kids and being interested and having them realize I'm interested and being a part of all of it. It's easy to get distracted in the stuff that needs to get done or your phone or other things, so just trying to do that, but we'll see.
[57:46] Christina Donovan: First off, thank you, Anne, for just being so open and vulnerable. And I don't just and it almost.
[57:56] Christina Donovan: Seems like I don't want to presume anything, but maybe six months from now, it's a good time to talk to you again as kind of see where we're at.
[58:09] Christina Donovan: Yeah. You'll be in a different place. And that's part of selfishly. I did want to talk to you now when it was all kind of new and fresh and like, oh, my God. I view it as a sabbatical, but I love that you don't really have set plans for I like Tina's question of just like, so what are you wanting to know during this? And I feel like this is a big one, but what legacy do you wish to leave behind when you think of and legacy? I think I hate that word, but it's just almost like, what's important to you? You said being present with your kids, but, like, bigger picture.
[59:17] Christina Donovan: What do you.
[59:17] Anne Conti: Think of yeah, I think that's hard. I guess I want my kids to know there's a lot of options out there in the world for you, and you can take one path, and you can then switch and take another path. And that part of those decisions are because my family is really important to me, and I want our family to feel that, but that there's nothing wrong with having a career, too, and that that's a really remarkable piece of my life as well. So I don't know. I guess to me, it's all about both, right? It's about showing that there's different ways to do things and different ways to make decisions and change up what you're doing and change maybe a bit of it, is that I want my kids to know that change is hard, but it's also necessary to keep going in your life, in finding what you want to do. So it's okay to switch things up.
[01:00:44] Christina Donovan: Take risks, and try things. I mean, part of what I admire is you said earlier, I get the feeling you just have faith that you're going to figure this out, that whatever is for the best, you will as a family and for yourself.
[01:01:10] Anne Conti: We'll figure it out.
[01:01:18] Christina Donovan: We hope you enjoyed our conversation with Anne. We are truly grateful to her for being willing to share her thoughts and insights as she takes a leap. And wow, there is so much to learn and reflect from our conversation with Anne. Although Anne's leap is very specific to her career and family, she raises universal questions and speaks so eloquently to the practical and emotional aspects involved in a big change. Anyone who is contemplating their own leap, whether it is a career change of any type, a relocation or perhaps retirement, will benefit from listening to Anne. It definitely comes across how courageous Anne is. And yet one of the things that really struck me was how long it took her to reach the edge from which she could finally leap. I found it reassuring that she does not have all the answers or have everything planned out. This underscores how much uncertainty and risk is involved in any change. And this is partly why our episode is called Taking the Leap because of all the unknowns involved in a big change. I thought it was so interesting how Anne was careful to acknowledge that her big change will not fix all her problems and meet all her needs. I think it is very important to have realistic expectations around a big change, and that is something that can get lost. When contemplating or undergoing a change. Anne reminds us of how change can affect the dynamics of a household and the considerations that go along with that, particularly in regards to a partner. I loved hearing her need to redefine success and accomplishments while undergoing this big leap and the importance of creating a space to do that. Finally, I love her emphasis on that there is no one single path and that change and risk are hard but necessary. These may be cliches, but they remind us of what is needed to live an intentional life. And listening to Anne's story paints a true picture of these values in action. So we applaud Anne for her courage and confidence in this big change in her life. We do hope to connect with her at a later date when she is further on her journey, and we will be interviewing her husband Tom in an upcoming episode. We hope this episode encourages or inspires you to take your own leap.
[01:04:10] Christina Donovan: For show notes and other information about.
[01:04:13] Tara Bansal: Our podcast, please go to our website, messymiddlescence.com. If you enjoyed listening, please share with others and come back for more.
[01:04:23] Christina Donovan: Our quote for today “It is never too late to start living the life you wish you had.” Lila Gifty Akita.
-
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Sed at pharetra tortor. Nam sit amet turpis purus. Suspendisse commodo odio ullamcorper dui consequat laoreet. Praesent at ultrices ligula. Maecenas gravida orci in ante facilisis mollis. Sed ac elementum purus. Nam pharetra, turpis at condimentum placerat, velit nunc vehicula magna, eu bibendum mi mi consequat augue.
-